280Z fusible links

[EuroDat]

Back in 2014 I purchased a set of fusible links from my local Nissan dealer. They sourced the parts from Coutesy Nissan.

Wayne is buzy with an update of his electrical diagram and this was a point of discussion.

Im not sure if they changed the colors, but the set I received is: 

1x Black p/n: 24161-A0100 (YAZAKIFLWX-1.25)

1x Green p/n: 24161-28500 (YAZAKIFLWX-0.5)

2x Brown p/n: 24161-Y0100 (FTX-0.3)

In (brackets) are codes on the link insulation. The brown have a different number compared to the manual,. They are brown instead of the original red. That could explain the different part number.

Refering to the parts manual en Waynes color electrical diagram. According to the parts manual Pos 19 is the two (outside) links A and C with a value of 1.25

Pos 18, link B and D have two values, which doesn't make sense, 0.3 and 0.5. That corresponds with one brown 0.3 and the green 0.5.

Did nissan get this mixed up? Looks like I should have two blacks for A and C, one green for B and one brown for D. That doesn't match the three reds and a black on the diagram. Could be just color changes over the years.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks

Eurodat

 

[SteveJ]

I think you may have been looking at the wrong page in the parts manual. (Note I am basing all of my response on the assumption that you are talking about the 5/77 car listed in your signature.)

The wiring diagram in the copy of the 77 FSM downloaded from XenonZCar shows 3 brown and 1 black for the fusible link blocks and 2 green for the fuel injection.

The page from the parts manual online for the 77/78 that has the fusible link blocks agrees.

 

[rcb280z]

3 hours ago, SteveJ said:

3 brown and 1 black for the fusible link blocks

This is exactly how my 5/77 is set up as well.

[Captain Obvious]

I dug into the 280 fusible link stuff a little while ago and here's what I determined. First, what the FSM's say...

The 75 FSM shows two fusible links and says they are black and green.
The 76 FSM shows four fusible links and says they include three different sizes of links (black, brown, and green).
The 77 and 78 FSMs shows four fusible links and says they include two different sizes of links (black and brown).

Note that the above links are the ones bolted to the passenger fender in the little square boxes with the white plastic caps. There is another one (or two in the case of 78) fusible link that comes directly off the battery and is specific to the EFI system. That additional link (or two) is outside the scope of this discussion. I'm just talking the ones in the boxes on the inside fender wall.

Also, I'm not sure what's up with the "brown" color link. Seems hard to find brown ones, or at least it used to be. I'm not sure if the brown was replaced by red or what, but I've seen more red links than I have brown although brown seems to be making a comeback.

So about part numbers? When I last looked, the part numbers were as follows:

FUSIBLE LINK-1.25 - 24161-A0100 - This is the black one
FUSIBLE LINK-0.5 -  24161-28500 -  This is the green one
FUSIBLE LINK-0.3  - 24161-Y0100 - This is the brown (or red) one  (supersedes old number 24161-N4200)

EuroDat, for your 77, it seems you want one black and three brown (or red)

[EuroDat]

The 77 manual is where I found the differences, and the carpartsmanual website.

If you look in the 1977 pdf in the download section here you can find the description of the different colors on page 501 or section BE-6. They are different to the wiring diagram in the back on page 680.

 

The parts list in carpartsmanual has two descriptions.

1st. (Pos 5& 6) http://www.carpartsmanual.com/datsun/Z-1969-1978/electrical/wiring/engine-room-(from-aug-76)

 

2nd. (Pos 18 & 19)  http://www.carpartsmanual.com/datsun/Z-1969-1978/electrical/electric-unit-switch/section-1/280z 

[Captain Obvious]

Some backup documentation for the above.

Pic from a 76 that has excellent condition original labels. Note the link colors:

Pic from my 77 with the links in the correct positions (regardless of the 77 FSM's misleading wiring diagram). I personally used a meter and verified these positions for 77 and 78:

I dug into the specs for the links and determined they (like most of the rest of the Z's electrical infrastructure) was made by Yazaki. Here's a link where you can find specs on much of the Yazaki wires, etc, including the link material:

http://connectors-catalog.sys.yzk.co.jp/yazaki-web/english/cables/pdf.html

And since it's easier to discuss without downloading pdf files...

Specs for the FLWX links. Would be cool if someone could translate into English for me:

Specs for the FTX links:

[Av8ferg]

I got a Japanese friend that lives in Hiroshima. I’ll see if he can translate for ya!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Captain Obvious]

Sweet! I mean, from an engineering standpoint, I can make out most of it just from the context and units. But it would be a lot easier if it were in English (for me anyway!).

[Captain Obvious]

Chas,

This pic, and the associated part numbers are the ones that apply to your 77:

 

It says you need one black link (P/N 24161-A0100) and three "brown" links (P/N 24161-N4200 which has been superseded by 24161-Y0100):

Just because the chart on page BE-6 lists the specs for three different colors, it doesn't mean that all three colors were actually used. They just copied that chart from the 1976 manual.

 

[Zed Head]

21 hours ago, EuroDat said:

Back in 2014 I purchased a set of fusible links from my local Nissan dealer. They sourced the parts from Coutesy Nissan.

Wayne is buzy with an update of his electrical diagram and this was a point of discussion.

Who is Wayne?  Don't know everyone's name.

The red versus brown controversy has been around for years, at least ten.  Even more confounding is the internet data out there that suggests that the smaller brown 0.3 mm^2 link is actually a thicker red link capable of more amps, 0.69 mm^2.  The advice is often used for people switching to Maxi-fuses.

Nissan stuck with brown through many years of FSM.  Somebody decided it was a thicker red link years ago and that advice has been used and abused since then.

Notice that there is no Brown in the web-link below, and Red appears from nowhere.  There's no Red in any of the FSM's.  Either Nissan chose the wrong color and the wrong cross section, and never fixed it for many years, or somebody made a mistake and never corrected it.

I've been bringing this up ever since I joined the club.

http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/fusiblelinks/index.html

Edited March 12, 2019 by Zed Head

[EuroDat]

25 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Some backup documentation for the above.

Pic from a 76 that has excellent condition original labels. Note the link colors:

Pic from my 77 with the links in the correct positions (regardless of the 77 FSM's misleading wiring diagram). I personally used a meter and verified these positions for 77 and 78:

I thought the wiring diagram at the back of the 77 pdf was incorrect. It shows the black link in the rear fusible link houder. It makes sense that the black link (1.25) would be in the front holder for the fuse block.

Ps. Captain, Those link holders look new. Very nice.

It's appears to be confussing for Courtesy Nissan as well. I quoted my build date and VIN number, and they sent the set in the photos.

[wal280z]

10 hours ago, SteveJ said:

The wiring diagram in the copy of the 77 FSM downloaded from XenonZCar shows 3 brown and 1 black for the fusible link blocks and 2 green for the fuel injection.

 

@SteveJ - just to be clear - it appears as though someone may have mixed up files for that site. This snip appears to be for a 1978 model, when Nissan relocated the EFI Relay from inside the cabin (75-77) to the engine compartment (78-beyond to ??)

I have uploaded the scan of the diagram from the back of my 1977 FSM that I used to create the colored version. It is now in the download section.

Edited March 12, 2019 by wal280z
edit in bold

[EuroDat]

Yer. That would be a right balls up. Swapping the 1.25 for a 0.3.

Another thing is we keep saying 77 and 78, but as far as I can make out the change happened in August 77 ot there abouts.

[Zed Head]

21 hours ago, EuroDat said:

In (brackets) are codes on the link insulation. The brown have a different number compared to the manual,. They are brown instead of the original red. That could explain the different part number.

I probably over-wrote in my other post.  But I think that the short answer is that "there is no Red link".  No "original" red.  

[EuroDat]

Would a simple diagram like this help clear it up?

[wal280z]

Chas & others,

Here are snips from the 1975 & 1976 diagrams.

1976 snip

1975 appears to only have 2 fusible links (besides any EFI fusible links)

1976 FSM Wiring Diagram has been uploaded to the download section.

Thanks to Chas & Capt Obvious for the discussion for me to find these files!

Wayne

Edited March 12, 2019 by wal280z
edit in bold

[Patcon]

1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

Who is Wayne?  Don't know everyone's name

wal280z

in his signature line too

[Zed Head]

2 minutes ago, Patcon said:

wal280z

in his signature line too

I just saw that in his other thread, but it's not in any of the posts before I asked.  And I don't think it's a sig I think that he types int in if he wants to.  And it's not in any of his posts above this one except for the very last one before yours.

Just arguing minutiae.

[Zed Head]

There are several questions interwoven through this thread.  What should Eurodat's fusible links be?  Is Red a thing?  Are the 77 diagrams correct?  Why are CO's Brown links pink?

[Zed Head]

Here's more confusion, from MSA.  They have a "Brown" diagram, but only sell red links.  And show 75 with 4 links.

https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/12-4330

Edited March 12, 2019 by Zed Head

[Captain Obvious]

Zed Head, The pic you posted from MSA is one of the biggest contributors to the problems with the fusible link locations for 77.

This diagram is wrong for the 77-78:

I don't know where it started, but it probably started from the FSM wiring diagram for 1977. Nissan (seemingly) tried to lay the components out on the wiring diagrams kinds-sorta in the same positions they are located on the car. Problem is they screwed up the position of the black link. On the factory wiring diagram in the manual, it has the black link on the fender side back position near the firewall. But on the 77 car (I myself personally verified with a meter) that the black link should be on the fender side FRONT near the headlight.

So Nissan never really said "This diagram correctly locates the link positions on the car", but it sure can be assumed that's the case.

Problem is.... It's wrong. And others (like MSA) have been propagating that incorrect assumption ever since.

[Captain Obvious]

2 hours ago, EuroDat said:

Another thing is we keep saying 77 and 78, but as far as I can make out the change happened in August 77 ot there abouts.

What change? I'm not sure what change you're talking about. The 77 and 78 manuals both look the same as far as the links go.

If you've got a 77 or 78, the links should look like this:

[wal280z]

2 hours ago, EuroDat said:

 I can make out the change happened in August 77 ot there abouts.

 

11 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

What change? I'm not sure what change you're talking about. The 77 and 78 manuals both look the same as far as the links go.

@Captain Obvious Bruce, I can't read minds, nor do I wish to, that's just a 'B' grade Sci-fi movie mixed with an episode of the Twilight Zone... NO THANKS....

I do know that for the 1978 model year, that the wiring harness changed with an internally regulated alternator as well as changes in where the fuel injection relays.

That said, post #12 I posted a snip from the 1978 diagram. Given our off-line conversation regarding the actual location of said fusible links in the 1977, can we assume that the carry-over of the mis-placement in the 1977 diagram to the 1978 diagram? Seem logical. It's happened before.  That said, I don't have a 1978 harness to trace or verify the placement of said links.

 

[Zed Head]

1 hour ago, Captain Obvious said:

Zed Head, The pic you posted from MSA is one of the biggest contributors to the problems with the fusible link locations for 77.

This diagram is wrong for the 77-78:

I don't know where it started, but it probably started from the FSM wiring diagram for 1977. Nissan (seemingly) tried to lay the components out on the wiring diagrams kinds-sorta in the same positions they are located on the car. Problem is they screwed up the position of the black link. On the factory wiring diagram in the manual, it has the black link on the fender side back position near the firewall. But on the 77 car (I myself personally verified with a meter) that the black link should be on the fender side FRONT near the headlight.

So Nissan never really said "This diagram correctly locates the link positions on the car", but it sure can be assumed that's the case.

Problem is.... It's wrong. And others (like MSA) have been propagating that incorrect assumption ever since.

@[email protected]  @[email protected]

Maybe one of the ZStore guys can fix it.  

[gwri8]

Thanks to everybody in this thread.  All of this discussion has solved an ongoing problem for me where I kept slowly toasting the fusible link for the alternator and fuse block (it was brown) whenever the headlights were on and only when the engine was running.  It was driving me crazy until CaptO's picture showed up.  I had been blindly going by MSA's diagram and had placed my black link like their example, putting a brown link on the slow roast. I just went down and switched the links to the proper placements.  Nothing gets hot anymore!  Thanks again!