Poor man's Porche

[gnosez]

I had the pleasure to spend several hours talking with Bob Sharp a few weeks ago at his home and at dinner. His sales/marketing strategy was to beat Porsches on the track over the weekend and then sell Datsuns on Monday. To do this his cars never ran races more than 2 hrs long. Most if not all of the Porsche teams ran a complete season w/12&24 hr races. This meant the 911s had to be built for the long haul and Bob's cars (Zs included) were more "sprint" type cars. The car were built stiffer, which is not something you want to drive for more than 2 hrs at a time, and could out handle the softer 911s.

[psdenno]

Interesting thread. I never would have seen it were it not revived. One item that is only briefly mentioned here is that it is not the purchase price, but the maintenance cost that will kill you on the old Porsches. E.g. I recently bought a tranny rebuild kit for my 5 speed for $130.00. A Porsche tech I know told me that the corresponding kit for an early 911 would be around $500-$600.

The Z is definitely less expensive to maintain and buy parts for than a contemporary Porsche or most German cars in general based on my 39 years as a Z owner. Having owned several Porsche 914s, including the 914-6 I still have, a 944, and an Audi, I am only too familiar with the costs. We went back to a Japanese car when we recently sold the family Audi and replaced it with an Infiniti G37 Convertible.

Perhaps the Datsun Z should have been called "The Rich Man's Porsche" due to the HUGE amount of money that could be saved in maintenance costs over the term of ownership when compared to the cost of maintaining any Porsche.

Dennis

[Arne]

I know in the April 1970 edition of Road and Track premiering the 240Z they did mention a direct comparison to the Porsche 911T, the lowest priced 911. There was a reference to the horsepower rating and weight of the Porsche and Z as being very close, and performance was expected to be similar.

So I got my April 1970 edition of Road & Track out and there is no reference to the Porsche 911T. The 914 is mentioned because they featured a road test of it in the issue. Furthermore, the 240Z was introduced in the January issue of Road & Track. The April issue was the road test.

After re-reading this thread, I too dug out my copies of R&T. The comparison to the 911T (and MGB GT) was in the Tech Analysis in the Jan. '70 issue, not the original Road Test in the April issue.

[Oiluj]

Yes - and pictures from the factory show a 911 sitting beside the Z... This was done by the Design Dept.

Having been a big Brit car fan when I was younger, I always thought the TR6 & GT6 to be lovely. I never really liked the early 70's 912/911 styling. Can't say why, but I was attracted to the boxy look of the 914.

However, to my eye, compared to the lines of the 240Z, none of the German designs measured-up. * This was 8 years before I got my first 240Z.

Today, I prefer the look of the Cayman over the "bigger" Porsches. Just looks and feels more like a "sports car" to me.

In terms of performance, I think the Z is what inspired Porsche to increase the performance of thier cars. Nothing like getting your arse kicked by a cheap, tin Japanese upstart to make a world-recognized sports car manufacturer improve their designs...

[FastWoman]

One item that is only briefly mentioned here is that it is not the purchase price, but the maintenance cost that will kill you on the old Porsches. E.g. I recently bought a tranny rebuild kit for my 5 speed for $130.00. A Porsche tech I know told me that the corresponding kit for an early 911 would be around $500-$600.

Wow!

Yeah, I remember buying my first 280Z as a graduate student. My advisor admired it, and we would often talk sports cars. Before long, he bought a Porsche 944. He would occasionally tell me how much money he would spend in parts and labor on the thing, and it made my jaw drop. I think he once spent $600 on a major tune-up. All the while, my Z was very reliable and affordable, and it was very easy to work on myself. So yeah, maybe there's something to the "poor man's Porsche" notion. I'm cool with that.

[kats]

Perhaps the Datsun Z should have been called "The Rich Man's Porsche" due to the HUGE amount of money that could be saved in maintenance costs over the term of ownership when compared to the cost of maintaining any Porsche.

Dennis

Thank you everyone,thank you.Especially I like above

A new point of view,yes when people have a datsun then become a rich.

One more question,how about American sports car? 1960s-1970s corvet and mustang are cool, are they compared to Zs? How about maintenance cost?

In Japan, imported car's labor fee is almost double , and parts are very expensive because they come by boat or airplane.And the "brand" . Shop like selling Ferrari can sell tiny parts with big surprising price.They know they are selling those expensive cars to rich people.

kats

[FastWoman]

Kats, it's pretty much the opposite here. American car parts are cheap, and labor is inexpensive. Breakdowns are a bit more frequent, though. I think with all things considered, maintenance is about the same whether American or Japanese. Now, the GERMAN cars are EXPENSIVE to keep on the road! (At least my American made BMW Z3 was.)

FAIW, I do find the Z a bit more expensive than my '66 Mustang to keep in repair in modern times, but it's a more complicated car. More parts = more to break!

Edited December 20, 2010 by FastWoman

[Travel'n Man]

I had a '67 MGB-GT back in '75...........great little car with tons of fun!!

[Arne]

Now, the GERMAN cars are EXPENSIVE to keep on the road! (At least my American made BMW Z3 was.)

I disagree. I owned a euro-E21 323i with over 200,000 miles on it for five years, and an E36 328i for 8 years. I found both of those cars to be very low maintenance, and not at all expensive to keep up.

[mally002]

I've only heard the 914 called the "Poor man's Porsche", however I've heard numerous times the Ferrari 308 called the "Poor man's Ferrari". Since I've never heard the 240Z in that context this was a very interesting thread to read.

[SteveJ]

Thank you everyone,thank you.Especially I like above

A new point of view,yes when people have a datsun then become a rich.

One more question,how about American sports car? 1960s-1970s corvet and mustang are cool, are they compared to Zs? How about maintenance cost?

In Japan, imported car's labor fee is almost double , and parts are very expensive because they come by boat or airplane.And the "brand" . Shop like selling Ferrari can sell tiny parts with big surprising price.They know they are selling those expensive cars to rich people.

kats

kats,

There are companies in the US that remanufacture enough of the parts that you can essentially build a "new" 60s muscle car. I'm pretty sure Year One did that with a Camaro.

My wife's uncle completed a mid-60s GTO not too long ago, too. Parts are certainly plentiful.

[Oiluj]

No first hand ownership experience with Bimmers. However, many of my friends and co-workers own or have owned one. They drive very well, but without exception, reliability compares poorly to our older Lexus's and they seem much more expensive to maintain.

In fact, in 2007 Design Engineering magazine, a cover article showed a picture of a 1997 Lexus ES300 with the caption": "Why does a 10 year old Lexus have better reliability than a brand new BMW?" An iInteresting read.