Poor man's Porche

[kats]

Hello,

I would like to know about "Poor man's Porche" , yes I knew this word and I new Mr.K told this in some books by interview. 240Z is a Nice sports car but inexpensive, Porche was used as a comparison.

But I want to know much more , not only from Japanese people saying,I want to know how people out side of Japan feel and use this word.What is a correct meaning for this word? I want to learn this from native speakers.

My primary question is,

When did people start saying this? In 1970? Did people say 240Z is a poor man's Porche(911)?

Or much later, let's say in 1980,did people say 240Z WAS a poor man's Porche(911? )

Or, "poor man's Porche" this word was used for 924/ 917 etc originally?? Did people say 240Z is a poor man's Porche , it is just like 924/ 917 etc?

Please tell me this, please.

Thank you,

kats

[Zak's Z]

I've heard that term used to describe the Porsche 944/924 before, but never a 240z. I understand its use as a metaphor - The Z does not cost as much as an expensive Porsche, and it's a Japanese car - made with far less quality than a Porsche, which also leads to it having less social 'prestige' than a Porsche. (according to the metaphor - not me!)

I have no idea when people coined this phrase when describing the Z car, nor if it was ever officially 'coined' in North America.

[Arne]

I've heard it too, along with the the "poor man's Jaguar". No particular significance, other than the fact that the 240Z was easily compared to much more expensive sports cars here in the USA.

[26th-Z]

Hi kats!

Porsche was a very well known sports car with racing lineage well before (20 years) the introduction of the Z. The 914 type was introduced at about the same time as the S30 and I recall comments about the choice between the two. Road & Track magazine did an article in July 1971 comparing 4 GT cars of the period with the 240 Z; MGB-GT, Fiat 124 Sports, Opel GT, and Triumph's GT6 Mk3.

The Porsche 914 was comparably priced with the 240 Z, however it was the 914-6 and the smaller displacement 911s that raced in the same class (C Production). They were far more expensive than the 240 Z. Of course, we all know how the 240 Z performed in the hands of John Morton at the SCCA "Road Race of Champions" in 1970 and 1971. In fact, the 240 Z enjoyed a very similar reputation with the Porsche as a "giant killer", out performing cars of much higher horsepower.

I never realized the "poor man's Porsche" expression was used in Japan, but I see why. The S30 was not built to the same quality level as the Porsche but it held the same if not higher performance level. The S30 is nimble, quick, and responsive like a Porsche at much less cost. It is less costly to maintain as well. I imagine the expression means the same in any culture. One does not have to pay such a high price to get the level of performance and reliability.

[bpilati]

Never heard this one, but I have heard the Datsun 510 referred to as the poor man's BMW, because the BMW 1600 may have inspired it. I can't verify it though.

[xray]

Car X is a "Poor man's" car Y. It's an overused idiom to refer to Any car that nearly equally performs a more expensive version of that car within the same class. Cayman is a poor man's 911. 240Z is a poor man's Corvette/Porsche/whatever. Implied to be derogatory, as it suggests the owners of the "poor man's" car can't afford the ultimate...

[Sailor Bob]

I read that differently - I always thought it was reference to the beauty of the car. If you can't afford a Porshe, you can still have a lovely 240Z which is in my mind comparable in appearance. As far as the general public goes they frequently can't tell the difference. Check the thread on this matter.

[hls30.com]

..."poor man's Porche" this word was used for 924/ 917 etc originally?? Did people say 240Z is a poor man's Porche , it is just like 924/ 917 etc?

Please tell me this, please.

Thank you,

kats

Kats,

I always heard this comment on the 924/917, until this thread I never heard it used to talk about a Z.

Will

[geezer]

“Poor man’s Porsche” is a phrase that I have only heard recently. “Poor man’s Jaguar” is another that slightly predates it. By recently I mean 10 years or so. It was 1970 when I took my first drive in a 240Z that was bought by a friend from my neighbor who was a salesman at Downtown Motors, here in Windsor Ontario. 240Z’s were on display and sold from the same showroom as XKE’s back then but I never heard that phrase until much later. Good thread Kats. It will be interesting to hear the different perspectives from around the world even if the origin of this phrase is never found.

[EScanlon]

What I recall of the phrase, and it was attributed towards the Z, was that if you couldn't afford the more "desireable" Porsche, you could always accept a less expensive Z. (I also recall Porsche owner's trying to denigrate the Z with that phrase.)

But, like the P.I.G. acronym that the police came up with after being labeled Pigs in the 60's (Pride - Integrity - Guts), the owner of the Z that introduced me to the expression mentioned that the Z did in fact perform very satisfactorily in many world class races making the comparison to the Porsche very appropriate. (He did not elaborate, and I was besotten by the looks of the car - nuff said.)

Now when I hear it, (at least in my mind) it is in reference to owning a desireable machine at a much lower cost than the extravagance of a Porsche.

2¢

E

[Carl Beck]

Hi Kats:

I can't say for certain that I haven't heard the phrase .."poor man's Porsche" applied to the 240-Z, but if I did, it wasn't very often.

As others have suggested, that phrase was more often applied to the VW/Porsche 914 when introduced, then later to the ill fated 924/944... here in the States.

In 1970 the Porsche Owners of America would not allow owners of the VW built Porsche 914 to join their club, as the car was sold in Europe as a VW. The Prosche Factory in-turn, threatened to withdraw support form and association with, the club... so finally the club yielded... Porsche introducing the 914/6 also helped the image of the 914 series here... but not a whole lot.

Porsche sold to an up-scale market, with higher prices and more limited production here in the U.S., and the Datsun 240-Z wasn't intended to penetrate that market. I don't believe that any of the people that bought 240-Z's, that I knew, did so because they wanted a Porsche but couldn't afford one. (I sold my 911 about six months after buying the 240Z).

For the most part the people that bought Datsun 240-Z's did so because first and foremost it was a strikingly beautiful design. I would say that the styling alone attracted about 70% of the buyers - very few if any of which had ever wanted a Sports or Grand Touring Car before. About 30% of the buyers were already "Sport Car People".

The fact of the matter is that the 240-Z had so much "Charisma" - that the truly wealthy people were buying/driving them - Hollywood Starts, Leading Sports Superstarts, High Tec. Gurus.. All people that could afford a Ferrari.... and they were paying the Datsun Dealers $3K to $5K over MSRP to get to the head of the list. (per Mr. Sage at Universal Datsun in L.A.)....

In addition to it's beautiful lines - it could be rationalized for purchase, as a useful second car for the family, because it presented great "utility" with the large cargo area and hatch back design. None of these people bought the Z instead of a Porsche.

The Z car was built to accommodate the average size American with lots of head and leg room (something sorely lacking in it's British and Italian competition). It also offered performance that would keep up with traffic, as well as providing comfort traveling the long distances between States on our Freeways. The real PLUS with the Datsun 240-Z was the proven reliability of the previous Datsun's sold in the States - especially the wildly successful DATSUN 510.

The Datsun 240-Z was priced about the same as it's market competition. Fiat 124, MGB-GT, Triumph TR-6, Triumph GT6, Opel GT, SAAB Sonnet, Capri V6 - - and for the most part they are the cars that went out of business as the Datsun 240-Z soaked up their customer base. (even if the Datsun buyer had to pay a Dealer premium far above the MSRP - making a Z purchase far more expensive than buying its competition at the time).

FWIW,

Carl B.

[76Datsun280z]

If you can't afford a Porshe, you can still have a lovely 240Z which is in my mind comparable in appearance.

That's what I've always thought too.