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Which Header?

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I'm looking for a header and curious what to buy.  If you have hard fast scientific data on why one is better that would be great!  Otherwise, opinions are welcome as well.  ?

 

I've got two on my current list and know that there are others, looking for equal length coated...

  • Arizona Z Car
  • MSA 

 

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Make sure that it has a thick flange that matches the intake manifold flange thickness.  That seems to a major oversight among many manufacturers.  A thin flange that requires special clamping yokes.

From what I've read if you haven't done any porting work on the head, headers will have  little effect on power.  The power bottlenecks are elsewhere.  They will increase the noise level though, so the perception of power will be greater.  No offense intended.  Some people go back to exhaust manifolds from headers just because of the extra noise.  Not kidding.  Something to consider.

 

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MSA ceramic header, ports matched to the head. All day long.

The heat reduction is unbelievable. And it sounds great. Lug it and it's quiet. Turn more rpms it will get louder for sure but it's a fantastic sound. I have the 2.5" full exhaust from MSA also on both of my Zs. Best bang for the bucks IMO.

I will say my 2.8 needed a $20 resonator installed but my 2.4 sounds wonderful without the resonator.

I have not read info on the Arizona product but the Pacesetter, like Zed Head says, does not have the correct flange thickness.

 

 

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Believe it or not, the company that manufactured the Datsun Competition Header is still around and the owner Marty Schneider is a friend. I can vouch for the quality too. I have the Datsun Comp headers on my Z and his 914 headers on my 914. Marty told me he can still build them.

MSDS in the LA area...

348DF2F4-A613-4712-BD86-EF6FBBF7F738.jpeg

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Way back in 2011, long-time contributor, LeonV, led an informative thread on the topic of headers vs manifold and on exhaust systems (pipe diameters, dual vs single-pipe).  The discussion is backed up with dyno test results (note: the quoted Hp numbers are 'road horsepower', so net of all driveline losses -- which typically run at about 10%).  The test vehicle was a 260Z that had been retrofitted with a 2.4/E88 engine fitted with triple 40mm Webers and a Datsun Competition header (which I assume is the same as the Nissan Motorsports header just mentioned by Conedodger).  

Exhaust system theory hasn't changed over the years, so the info in this old thread is still relevant.  Included is a video of the dyno test.  The car sounds great... although it's informative to listen to the resonance periods as the engine is powered up to max revs. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Namerow said:

Way back in 2011, long-time contributor, LeonV, led an informative thread on the topic of headers vs manifold and on exhaust systems

He never really said though, did he?  He is still active on Hybridz.org, he might have followed up over there.

John Coffey used to comment often that before headers, the exhaust system itself should be improved.  Piping headers in to a restrictive exhaust system was a bad idea, obviously, and a stock Z's exhaust is fairly restrictive, apparently.

Here is LeonV's most direct comment about headers.

 

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5 hours ago, Namerow said:

Way back in 2011, long-time contributor, LeonV, led an informative thread on the topic of headers vs manifold and on exhaust systems (pipe diameters, dual vs single-pipe).  The discussion is backed up with dyno test results (note: the quoted Hp numbers are 'road horsepower', so net of all driveline losses -- which typically run at about 10%).  The test vehicle was a 260Z that had been retrofitted with a 2.4/E88 engine fitted with triple 40mm Webers and a Datsun Competition header (which I assume is the same as the Nissan Motorsports header just mentioned by Conedodger).  

Exhaust system theory hasn't changed over the years, so the info in this old thread is still relevant.  Included is a video of the dyno test.  The car sounds great... although it's informative to listen to the resonance periods as the engine is powered up to max revs. 

 

Quite the blast from the past! I've just copy/pasted the Comp header test results into the link above from the original HybridZ thread. The stock cam of the L24 did not pair well with the long-primary Comp header--it's really the length that matters for tuning, width is sized to minimize pumping losses vs weight/package/cost. Not to mention that the header was run with dual pipes with no merge collector. It wasn't the most scientific experiment because I didn't isolate just the header but it gives folks an idea of what these changes caused and why. That car was sold before more engine work was done.

My current 260Z runs an L28 with the MSA 6-1 header. The header came with the car along with an MSA 2.5" premium exhaust. I had it modified for an additional resonator and "the quietest muffler you have" which ended up being a Walker Quiet-Flow. I wanted to hear all the induction noises, uninterrupted by a loud exhaust. I've since converted some Z friends who wanted to quiet their car down, to the same muffler.

Here's a dyno run on poorly-tuned carbs.

 

Edited by LeonV
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FWIW here is my old L26 oil burning engine with a stock cam, MSA 6/3/2 into 2.5” and a turbo muffler + 280zx dizzy and ZTherapy SUs...

 

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The E88 head was beautifully ported by PO.

 

Same set up on my hot L28 was great also but droned like hell. Swapping in a z story straight through muffler totally opened it up between 5.5-6.5krpm!

 

 

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On 8/22/2020 at 8:22 AM, conedodger said:

Believe it or not, the company that manufactured the Datsun Competition Header is still around and the owner Marty Schneider is a friend. I can vouch for the quality too. I have the Datsun Comp headers on my Z and his 914 headers on my 914. Marty told me he can still build them.

MSDS in the LA area...

348DF2F4-A613-4712-BD86-EF6FBBF7F738.jpeg

https://www.msdsinc.com/exhaust.html

Is this Martys company? The price does look attractive.

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If you're looking to spend some cash on a full kit with Japanese stainless fit and finish, I highly recommend the Fujitsubo twin pipe setup from RHDJapan.

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Edited by 73str86
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FB_IMG_1598251802510.thumb.jpg.9694fc1241ca7148b17172502510528b.jpg
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I didn’t realise pornography was allowed on this site!!!!
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9 hours ago, Mark Maras said:

Original tubes thread?

Reminds me that one of the foremost names in headers back in the day was 'Hooker'.  

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I have purchased the Z-Story Street headers with full exhaust all the way back. Sean was easy to work with and the equipment is beautiful....however there were some serious issues with the headers that I received. He knows about the problems and hopefully is correcting for future orders. The flange needed to be ground down on each end to allow for the intake to fit and be bolted up. That was fairly straightforward and with some grinding on the flange edge I got the intake to seat nicely. The major issue is the the angle of the pipes coming off of the flange.  Several of the thick washers used to hold intake and exhaust in place had to have the edges ground a lot just to get them to slip onto the stud. I had to scrap the stud all together on the fist pipe and use a bolt with normal flat washer because the stud actually hit the header pipe before it would seat against the head. I am a probably a week away from getting the engine back in this car. I hope everything seals up OK but I have a feeling I will have to go a different route. A couple of the manifold nuts were VERY tricky to get a wrench on to tighten, impossible with and socket and swivels because they are just to close to the pipes to get any clearance for a socket to slip over the nuts. 

I was very excited about this exhaust system but I fear I have a lot of money tied up into a header I will have to replace. 

IMG_4871.jpg

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Haven't gotten that far yet. The engine is still on the stand. 

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