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Carl Beck

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About Carl Beck

  • User Group: Members

  • Member ID: 2845

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  • Joined: 02/26/2003

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  • Currently: Viewing Topic: Z's on BAT and other places collection


Carl Beck last won the day on July 21 2021

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  • Map Location
    Clearwater,Florida USA
  • Occupation
    Systems Engineer -Aerospace

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    69,70,71,72,72 & 73 BRE-Z

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  1. If it looks gray in pictures - might just be the lighting and angle of the light source etc. That said - if it looks gray or has blueish undertones etc when you see it in person- it isn't factory. Factory Silver in person looks Silver as in that picture. Factory Silver used "Fine" silver metal flakes only. My first 240Z was Silver... got a scratch in the passenger door about 14 months after I picked it up from the Dealer. Spent several months trying to find the right body shop that could match the paint - the fourth shop got it right. Spent months looking very closely at that Silver from the factory. Very hard for shops using completely different types of paint today to blend the correct color - it can be done - if they are willing to shoot enough test panels large enough. Chevy Guys - have the same problem getting Cortez Silver correct as well on Corvettes/Camaro's/Chevelles from the 60's/70's. I had that on my 1970 SS396 El Camino - it is all but identical to the original silver on the 240Z's. Sill if today you look at a hundred pictures of Cortez Silver - only about 1 in 20 looks like the correct shade. Too many of them have gray or blue undertone, or a sand/gold undertone. FWIW Carl
  2. Hi Kats: That is correct - it did not comply with the normal “model year” marketing system here. The normal model year 1971 here started 1 Oct. 1970 and would run into 30 Sept 1971. These are dates New/Improved models go on sale at the Dealerships. Don’t confuse the Dates of Sale with Dates of Manufacture; although there is normal relationship between them. Cars have to be manufactured some time before they go on sale at the dealership. So for some reason Nissan continued to build/sell the same model as both 1970 and 1971 model year offerings from Oct 1969 through all of 1970 and into 1971. Four months (Oct.,Nov., Dec. Jan.) into the normal 1971 model year Nissan introduced a second and different model also sold as a 1971 model year offering. This affected only the Datsun 240Z, the 510’s and Pickup’s for the 1971 Model Year were in the showroom for sale in Oct. or Nov of 1970. I can only guess why that was done with the 240Z; I would guess Nissan was delayed for some reason getting the normal 1971 Model introduced back in Oct./Nov. of 1970. That delay may have been due to ever changing US Emissions and Safety Standards during that period. With required changes made, the cars had to under-go US re-certification before being sold. (another delay). The same thing happened with the introduction of the 1975 Fuel Injected 280Z - it was delayed by 3 or 4 months into the normal 1975 model year. However that time it only involved selling one model year 1975. You may recall that Mr. Kawazoe was assigned to work in Washington D.C. to represent both Nissan and the Japanese Auto Industry to lobby the US Congress for changes, reductions or delays in implementing the strict standards. (same as all the US manufacturers did at the time). Also to inform Japan of pending or proposed new standards. Keep in mind there was no “Internet” then that allowed real time communications of documents or drawings. International communications of complex technical documents could take a week or more.
  3. Hi Kats: The short answer to your question is NO - No discount, however because I was on active duty with the United States Air Force at the time (and Military Pay was very very low), the Dealer did not mark up the Retail Price. Dealers in the US had such demand for the 240Z's, mostly because the report of the 240Z published in "Road & Track Magazine" which hit the News-Stands Dec. 1, 1969 with the 240Z on the Cover!. (the Cover Car was one of the US Road Test 240Z's, that Nissan had given R&T early access to) So by March 1970 there were long waiting lists for 240Zs, especially in California and on the West Coast. Dealers were adding $1,000.00 to $2000.00 to the MSRP of $3526.00. Then adding more for additional accessories like Mag Wheels, Body Side Molding etc. Because there was a large Air Force Base in Spokane, and because military pay was low, the military personnel bought a lot of very affordable Datsuns locally. So the Dealer wanted to get the first Z's shown/seen on the Base. So I got the first one there... The Dealer I purchased my first Z from was Paul Jaremko. If you read John B. Rae's book; "NISSAN/DATSUN A History of Nissan Motor Corporation in U.S.A. 1960 to 1980" - you would see that Paul Jaremko won Datsun their first SCCA Regional Championships on the West Coast in 1964 driving a Datsun SPL 310 roadster to 14 successive victories. The Jaremko's were one of Mr. K's first 100 Datsun Dealers in the USA (they owned 3 Dealerships). Of course I did not know that when I met him. However I was driving a 1967 Porsche 911S at the time and we started talking about sports car and racing in general as I was test driving the 240Z with him. I had done some limited racing and rallying with the Mid-Ohio Sports Car Club so Paul and I hit it off right away. We are friends to this day.
  4. I bought my first 240Z 14 March 1970, in Spokane, Washington - HLS30 01777. Had to leave it on the Dealer's Showroom floor until May 1970 when they started to actually get their first "supply" of 4 240'z. (all of which had been pre-sold). Then the last guy on the list had to leave his there..for a while.
  5. Yes, and several others found out that you can not drive a 240Z over the concrete parking stops at the shopping mall or grocery store. (without getting hung up or damaging the frame rails).
  6. They were titled as whatever the Dealer put on the original application for a new title at the local DMV, in any of the 50 States. In the 50's, 60's and even into 1970 many Import Car Dealers held their Model Year consistent with whatever was common practice in the country of origin. Many of the early Datsun Dealers were already Import Car Dealers when they took on the Datsun Brand. So they followed their normal practice when applying for a new car Title. VW for example held their model year consistent with the calendar year, as did Porsche and Jaguar as I recall. So if a VW was produced on say 31 Dec. 1960 it was titled as a 1960 VW no matter when it was sold, if the VW was produced on 3 Jan 1961 it was titled as a 1961 VW (even though there was no real difference between them). At that time, part of the reasons given to buy a VW Bug, was that there was no "Planned Obsolescence” due to changing the model completely every year as was done by the American Mfg.s. in the 50’s and 60’s. If you drove a Bug it always looked like a new one! The downside to holding the model year consistent with the Calendar Year for the Import Car Dealers, was that their “new models” arrived at the US Dealerships about three months after the First of the Year. That was 5 or 6 months after the New Models from the American Manufactures went on sale. Model Years also affected Resale Values later in the market - as cars depreciated year by year - a car tilted as a 1960 VW was worth less in the resale market than one titled as a 1961 model. (in the eyes of the banks that loaned the money - as well as the customers buying them). Over time, with increased competition and new laws/regulations from the Federal Government; Domestic and Import Car Sales practices started to normalize. Nonetheless today looking back 40 or 50 years everything looks abnormal.
  7. Now 50+ years later, it is impossible to know for certain. It is certainly “possible” that one or two newer or older parts made their way onto the wrong car. Possible but with a very low probability. If we were talking American Cars with the UAW workers on the line - yes - high probability of things screwed up. A world class car assembled in Japan by workers with great company pride and Total Quality Control training etc. … very low probability IMHO. The highest VIN we have recorded so far for a Series I HLS30 240Z, is HLS30 20533. Purchased from the original owners family and refreshed by a friend of mine. In the exchange of pictures and information over the months he worked on the car, we did not find any of the Series II changes or improvements on that 240Z. (it was an A/T car BTW) Another outlier - is HLS30 19860, a Series I example that should have finished production in 01/71, but did not -and was finished in 02/71. It was advertised for sale on BAT in 2017 and pretty completely discussed at the time - but none of the Series II changes seemed to be present on that Z at that time.
  8. According to the Date of Mfg. on the cars - production started in 08/72 and ended in 08/73. Highest VIN for 1973 found so far is HLS30 172767.
  9. No - by the 1973 Model Year the US Emissions and Safety standards required both here. Flame retardant interior materials were also mandated for 1973 here.
  10. Yes, I'd say late 80's to early 90's. Before that there was constant confusion caused by indirect, misapplied or misunderstood terms. Like early 71 or late 71. (how early is early? early in what year? which year - the model year or the calendar year? etc etc. Once we realized that Nissan had documented the 4 model series (1970, 1971, 1972, 1973) in their Technical Service Bulletins we started referring to them. The first segment of chassis serial numbers sold to the public according to Nissan began at HLS30-00013, the second segment of chassis serial numbers started at HLS30 21001, the third at HLS30 46000 and the fourth at HLS30 120001. It avoided all the misunderstanding related to terms like model, year, model year, calendar year. Series I and Series II were needed to individually identify each of the two 1971 Datsun 240Z offered for sale. Then tell the difference between the two different 1971 Datsun 240Z's in the marketplace. Looking back at my notes: "The Z Car List" was started in 1987 by Bob Wissman IZCC #176. Before that we had about 300 subscribers on an E-Mail Copy List. The IZCC (a virtual club in the Metaverse) was started by John DeArmond in 1992. #2831 would have been issued in the Feb. of 1996. By 2008 we had over 15,000 subscribers to "The Z Car List". Many new members over the years had just started to look for a 240Z to buy - still asking - what is the difference between early or late 1971 Model Year 240Z's? Which is best? How do I tell them apart? etc etc. (you can see from this discussion that all still goes on today)
  11. "When Nissan switched" what ? When Nissan switched from selling the 1970 design (your term) as a 1970 Model Year offering - to - selling the 1970 design as a 1971 Model Year offering? I don't believe we have that pinned down to a specific month, as it depended on the Dealer and the State they were in. or When Nissan switched from manufacturing the 1970 design - to manufacturing the 1971 design? Kats said earlier Nissan switched in Feb 1971 for exports and in March of domestic market cars. The Technical Service Bulletin gives the beginning chassis serial number as HLS30 21001 - and so far every 240Z (still stock) with that VIN or higher has a manufacturing date of 02/71 or higher.
  12. While Nissan released all 1971 features at once on the “Late 1971 Model”; If you think about it - releasing a different model while retaining the same “Model Year” for 1971 isn’t the only time Nissan did that. For 1974 Nissan offered two different models of the 260Z here in the US. The original design 260Z based on the 240Z body and then later the 260Z based on the coming 1975 280Z body. We are told that the Fuel Injected L28E was delayed in development and/or in US Emissions Certification, while the new design body proceeded on schedule into production. The result was Nissan continuing to sell the L26 in the new body to meed emissions standards as a 1974 260Z So the 1975 280Z didn’t come on the market until after Jan. 1975.
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