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Namerow

What's the most needed Z part that's currently NLA?

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Posted (edited)

I thought that our CZCC members might like to contribute their thoughts here.  Who knows?  We might inspire someone out there to start making some of these items.

My nomination would be:

Differential Mount Insulator for the early-design cars with angled rear halfshafts (Nissan PN 55415 E4102)

This part was used up until 71-06, so it was installed on about 30,000 Z's.  If 5% of those cars are still in running or restorable condition, that would mean there's a ready market for perhaps 1,000 of these early-style diff mounts.  To the best of my knowledge, there's no way that any of the later-style mounts can be modified to fit.  Typical owner solutions seem to be either:

  • replace all of the diff carrier pieces with conveniently-available, newer-design parts (expensive, and not correct for a proper restoration)
     
  • ignore it and pretend that running with a worn-out original mount isn't a problem

Given that the metal parts are usually quite salvageable, perhaps all that's required to restore the mount is for someone to reproduce the rubber core.  With a new core, it would be a fairly simple matter to burn out the worn-out original, clean up the metal, and then glue a new core (should be fine, given that the bonding area is big and the joint wouldn't experience any shear loads -- just compression/tension).

 

image.png

image.png  Early-style mount on the top    image.png Early-style mount on the left

S30 Differential - Front Mount Insulator - OE - 240Z early a.jpg
(apologies for not being able to provide photo credits)

Edited by Namerow
1st edit: a few added thoughts
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Replaced that diff mount on my 1970 in 1998 and still have the old part. I have contacts in eastern Europe that produces rubber and rubber backed steel parts. When I get time, I will try to make a drawing off my old parts and look into making these. I paid $37.44 in 1998, it will be hard to meet that price. LOL

20200419_074720.jpg

 

 

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Posted (edited)

AM I crazy? (Ok, we all know the answer to that, but listen to me for a sec.)

If I’m reading the original drawing thing, the diff moves back 35mm in the new “better” configuration. Like an 1-3/8 or better. Since the big steel cross member is not moving, the center M10 stud on the isolator has to be in the same spot, so it must be the two holes that bolt the isolator to the diff that are offset forward 35mm. Sure doesn’t look like that much when you compare the two isolators side by each. Or are you bolting through the “other” pair of holes on the diff to make up this massive difference?

Or is the mount rotated one vs the other so the holes are at the front or rear of the cross member? That must be it...

Clue me in!

 

Edited by zKars

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I'm not sure I see the merit in restoring to include the defective diff position myself. Although I understand wanting to be "original". But for me it's like keeping the oiler bar when they later had the internally oiled cam design which was better and for the most part both won't be seen once installed..

In terms of hard to find parts.

Ashtray's (early ones) because they were made of bakerlite plastic and so no reproduction exists. 1 drop and they shatter into a bajillion bits.

I also think the original sound deadening material cut to appropriate shapes would be great. (I think material still exists but you gotta cut to spec).

Original Jute underlay and loop pile carpets are another..(still haven't found great sources for those).

Then rear 1/4 panels, roof skins and rear valance sections would really kick things along.

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Hatch & door window glass.   Getting difficult to find in acceptable to pristine condition.

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29 minutes ago, zKars said:

If I’m reading the original drawing thing, the diff moves back 35mm in the new “better” configuration. Like an 1-3/8 or better. Since the big steel cross member is not moving, the center M10 stud on the isolator has to be in the same spot, so it must be the two holes that bolt the isolator to the diff that are offset forward 35mm. Sure doesn’t look like that much when you compare the two isolators side by each. Or are you bolting through the “other” pair of holes on the diff to make up this massive difference?

No, you're not crazy (although we should perhaps let your wife comment on this LOL ).  The answer, I think, lies in the fact that there is also a difference between the 'old' vs. 'new' designs for the diff's front crossmember.  The locations for the bolt holes changed. 

I have never seen anyone produce a proper sketch in plan or elevation view that makes the differences in all of the bolt hole and mount stud locations obvious (and I'm not about to try).  However, I have never heard anyone come up with an easy fix for replacing the early-style front diff mount (and don't forget that this issue has been in play now for about 40 years).

According to my notes, here's what needs to be replaced in order to 'fix' things so that the newer-style mount can be used:

·         Diff Front Crossmember

·         Diff Arrester Belt Brackets (lhs & rhs), bolts, and sleeves  (the design of the belt itself was not changed)

·         Moustache Bar

·         Suspension Lower Transverse Crossmember (new design was dished and bowed outwards towards the rear so as to clear the rear of the diff case)

·         Driveshaft (the S2 driveshaft is 20mm longer)

·         Moustache Bar Rubber Bushings, sleeves & hardware (might not be mandatory, but the PN’s certainly changed)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gav240z said:

Then rear 1/4 panels, roof skins and rear valance sections would really kick things along.

A few of the well-known Z-car parts suppliers offer a rear valence panel that might meet your needs.

However, I recall reading recently that the existing replacement panels aren't 100% accurate in certain details (e.g. shape of the cutout for the exhaust tip).  Maybe that's what you're alluding to when you say that the panel isn't available?

Edited by Namerow

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Door weather strip.   The Precision version requires you to slam the doors.  Personally, I would like to use my factory welt strips too.

 

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19 hours ago, zKars said:

Or are you bolting through the “other” pair of holes on the diff to make up this massive difference?

This, 

Roll back up to the drawing at the top of the page and you can see in the later "better" position that the front of the diff is being supported forward of where it is supported on the earlier configuration.

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On 4/19/2020 at 4:41 PM, Namerow said:

ignore it and pretend that running with a worn-out original mount isn't a problem

I had a laugh..  About 10 years ago it made some noise and i welded a U-type/piece of steel with some rubber IN it around the old diff mount just to get it ready for APK (this is the dutch MOT).  Bought also then a new diff mount.. and guess what… it is still laying around in my garage!  The repair i did still functioning and the last 10 years no problem for the APK!  ?  (I'm to busy with my other cars i guess….)

Don't know if i have the newer part or the older correct ( for my car 2-72) part.. 

EDIT: this should be  "my 2-'71 car!!!  sorry!

Edited by dutchzcarguy

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If that's an early-style diff mount and still in as-new condition, it's worth $$$ :ph34r:.   But if it's, "correct for my car 2-72", then it's the new style mount and can be safely left laying around in your garage.

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Horn pad mount, the hard plastic on the backside of the black pad.  I have mine jimmy rigged but it still falls off.  MSA sales the pad itself but not the locking ring.

From https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic08d18/40-3140

Description
This is the genuine, original equipment (OEM) replacement horn pad. The outer ring and word "Datsun" are chrome and the background is satin black. This is the pad only and does not include the plastic ring that holds the pad in place.

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77-78 plastic a pillar pieces that mount between windshield and door, 77-78 steering wheel clamshell


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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19 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

Horn pad mount, the hard plastic on the backside of the black pad.  I have mine jimmy rigged but it still falls off.  MSA sales the pad itself but not the locking ring.

From https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic08d18/40-3140

Description
This is the genuine, original equipment (OEM) replacement horn pad. The outer ring and word "Datsun" are chrome and the background is satin black. This is the pad only and does not include the plastic ring that holds the pad in place.

Check with @nix240z He makes these...

https://www.240zrubberparts.com/apps/webstore/products/show/4432194

 

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On 4/19/2020 at 10:41 AM, Namerow said:

I thought that our CZCC members might like to contribute their thoughts here.  Who knows?  We might inspire someone out there to start making some of these items.

My nomination would be:

Differential Mount Insulator for the early-design cars with angled rear halfshafts (Nissan PN 55415 E4102)

This part was used up until 71-06, so it was installed on about 30,000 Z's.  If 5% of those cars are still in running or restorable condition, that would mean there's a ready market for perhaps 1,000 of these early-style diff mounts.  To the best of my knowledge, there's no way that any of the later-style mounts can be modified to fit.  Typical owner solutions seem to be either:

  • replace all of the diff carrier pieces with conveniently-available, newer-design parts (expensive, and not correct for a proper restoration)
     
  • ignore it and pretend that running with a worn-out original mount isn't a problem

Given that the metal parts are usually quite salvageable, perhaps all that's required to restore the mount is for someone to reproduce the rubber core.  With a new core, it would be a fairly simple matter to burn out the worn-out original, clean up the metal, and then glue a new core (should be fine, given that the bonding area is big and the joint wouldn't experience any shear loads -- just compression/tension).

 

image.png

image.png  Early-style mount on the bottom    image.png Early-style mount on the right

S30 Differential - Front Mount Insulator - OE - 240Z early a.jpg
(apologies for not being able to provide photo credits)

 
 
dasani300x250.jpg

 

I have a NOS diff mount with the early part number quoted but it does not look like the one identified in the visuals shown above.  Did you happen to label visuals 2 and 3 of 4 incorrectly?  This is what i have (see below)

 

 

 

 

diff mount 2.jpg

diff mount1.jpg

Edited by colinc

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22 hours ago, dutchzcarguy said:

Don't know if i have the newer part or the older correct ( for my car 2-72) part.. 

EDIT: this should be  "my 2-'71 car!!!  sorry!

Sleepy head was the problem i think..  btw i have now sinds 2007 a Original Dutch 240z differential and 5 speed gearbox in my 240z..  and i believe i used the same diff mount then.. not sure..  (5 speed gearbox: FS5C71B and uses a 1:3,9 gear diff.)

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13 hours ago, colinc said:

Did you happen to label visuals 2 and 3 of 4 incorrectly? 

Thanks for spotting this.  You're right.  I've gone back and edited the captions for photos #2 and #3.  The early-design mount is identified by the non-rectangular shape of its outer plate.  Sorry for the mix-up.

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On 4/19/2020 at 12:08 PM, Namerow said:

According to my notes, here's what needs to be replaced in order to 'fix' things so that the newer-style mount can be used:

·         Diff Front Crossmember

·         Diff Arrester Belt Brackets (lhs & rhs), bolts, and sleeves  (the design of the belt itself was not changed)

·         Moustache Bar

·         Suspension Lower Transverse Crossmember (new design was dished and bowed outwards towards the rear so as to clear the rear of the diff case)

·         Driveshaft (the S2 driveshaft is 20mm longer)

·         Moustache Bar Rubber Bushings, sleeves & hardware (might not be mandatory, but the PN’s certainly changed)

From all I've read, you only need to change the mustache bar and lower transverse crossmember to use the later style diff mount.  This seems somewhat consistent with the microfiche data, which shows that the diff front crossmember, mustache bar, and diff mount changes in 7/71, but the driveshaft doesn't change until 9/71 (which is coincident with the change to the "B"-series transmission).  Not sure what the change is from diff front crossmember 55411-E4100 to 55411-E8300, but maybe it didn't change in ways that matter as far as the diff mount goes.  MSA also seems to agree with this change set, FWIW.

In any case, I will eventually be testing this as my 5/71 rear suspension is currently set up with the original diff front crossmember and driveshaft, but later diff mount, later mustache bar, and later lower transverse crossmember.  "Original" with respect to the diff front crossmember and driveshaft is assumed, as anything could have been changed in the 20 years before I took ownership of the car, but the other rear suspension pieces that came off the car are all obviously series 1.  The rear suspension is still sitting on a rolling cart, so maybe I'll find incompatibilities when I eventually install it back into the chassis.  I have all the original pieces, so I can revert if necessary, and the original series 1 diff mount looks pretty good.  I just figured I'd replace anything with 50-year-old rubber.  I'm sure there are others in the group with more knowledge in this area, so I'll stand corrected if any of my assertions are incorrect.

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Oh this is a good one!!!!  Very nice topic.  Here are mine, at least for the '71 model:

  1. Dashboard
  2. Center Console
  3. Fuse cover with ashtray with flip lid

Not stock, but one more:

  • Nismo fuel pump bracket mount

 

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8 hours ago, Mike said:

Oh this is a good one!!!!  Very nice topic.  Here are mine, at least for the '71 model:

  1. Dashboard
  2. Center Console
  3. Fuse cover with ashtray with flip lid

Not stock, but one more:

  • Nismo fuel pump bracket mount

 

Vintage Dashes makes an entirely new 240z dashboard, do you need more info?

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7 hours ago, 73str86 said:

Vintage Dashes makes an entirely new 240z dashboard, do you need more info?

Nah, I'm good but I'm sure others may appreciate it.  I do need the Nismo fuel pump bracket though.

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Summary of what we've heard so far...

Part

Category

Suggested by

Suggester’s Comments

Diff Front Mount (insulator) – ‘early’ type (PN 55415 E4102)

Drivetrain

Namerow

No convenient workarounds that preserve originality of ‘early’ driveline layout.

Hatch Glass

Glass

S30Driver

Getting difficult to find in acceptable to pristine condition.

Side Window Glass

Glass

S30Driver

Getting difficult to find in acceptable to pristine condition.

Carpet underlay pieces, cut-to-shape from OE-spec jute material

Floor Coverings

Gav240z

Correct material not readily available and not pre-cut

Sound deadener pieces
(cabin side of firewall)

Floor Coverings

Gav240z

Correct material not readily available and not pre-cut

Carpets in correct, loop-style

Floor Coverings

Gav240z

Carpets in correct material not readily available

Rear quarter panels

Body Panels

Gav240z

Closest available is Tabco’s partial  patch panel

Roof panel

Body Panels

Gav240z

Required to fix cars cut for sunroof. Re-pop panel not available.

Rear valence panel
(aka rear ‘apron’ / ‘roll’ panel)

Body Panels

Gav240z

Available re-pops fit OK but are not accurate in certain details.

Ashtray – ‘early’ type

Interior

Gav240z

‘fragile’

Center console – ‘early’ type

Interior

Mike

 

Fuse box cover plate – ‘early’ type

Interior

Mike

 

‘Nismo’ fuel pump mounting bracket

Body Parts

Mike

Not an OE part, but…

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I have been searching for a 70 - 71 radio faceplate for 3+ years with no luck. Lots of broken ones. I found someone to do a 3D print but the texture is off. 

PS isn't the Ashtray and the Fuse Box Cover the same thing?

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 Fuse box cover and the ashtray are the same piece with a hole for the lighter. An ashtray lid and a spring completes the assembly.

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