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BAT 1970 240Z HLS30-04930

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How does this car compare to the care Captain Obvious posted about the other day?

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Nice car, I hope it goes for a nice price. Ok I have read it a couple of times and am I miss reading it or does it state that it is a low milage car somewhere? They write that the odometer shows 37859 when parked in the 90's and that the log book kept track of the milage from 72 till it was parked, but the photo does not show the pages right before it was parked?

Edited by 240dkw
Deleted comment after rereading write up

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This seems to be a very nice example.  I think it's probably at the top of the price range, but nice early examples are selling higher.  I wouldn't put much faith in this being some low mileage example. 

If I could take a moment and call out the the 'facebook experts' for their serious lack of knowledge and inability to seek reliable, documented information.  Whew!!! Those people say the damnedest things!

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21 minutes ago, 26th-Z said:

If I could take a moment and call out the the 'facebook experts' for their serious lack of knowledge and inability to seek reliable, documented information.  Whew!!! Those people say the damnedest things!

What did you think about the carpet discussion?

One of the latest came-out-of-nowhere bulk dealers states that he has seen no variation on '69 through '73(?) carpets (says they were all the same), which I find pretty remarkable seeing as the very first type of carpeting in North American market cars was manufactured by a third party in the USA until the factory started fitting them a little later on. Identical?

One of his customers is backing him up, of course. It's like a Punch and Judy show. 

 

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I dunno. The car is in great shape but I think it surpassed its value in bidding so far. The door dents and other multiple non working components leave a lot to be desired. I thought it was a $30,000 car tops.

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5 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

What did you think about the carpet discussion?

One of the latest came-out-of-nowhere bulk dealers states that he has seen no variation on '69 through '73(?) carpets (says they were all the same), which I find pretty remarkable seeing as the very first type of carpeting in North American market cars was manufactured by a third party in the USA until the factory started fitting them a little later on. Identical?

One of his customers is backing him up, of course. It's like a Punch and Judy show. 

 

Punch and Judy Show - ha!!  You got me!

I completely agree and in fact bought two sets of carpeting from that very manufacturer years ago when I had the chance.  The early cars didn't come with carpeting and it was added at the port of entry.  

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3 minutes ago, 26th-Z said:

I completely agree and in fact bought two sets of carpeting from that very manufacturer years ago when I had the chance.  The early cars didn't come with carpeting and it was added at the port of entry.  

That's stuff I learned about right here, courtesy yourself and Mike B. Thank you.

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5 hours ago, Patcon said:

How does this car compare to the care Captain Obvious posted about the other day?

I didn't check out the car in this BAT auction, but some of the details about the one I posted about.

Supposedly original owner and supposedly just 49K miles. There was some circumstantial evidence to support the mileage claim, and I assume there was a Pennsylvania title for the car that would confirm or deny the original owner claim.

There had been some bodywork done on the blue one I posted about. The story was that something fell on the car while in the garage and mushed the hood a little bit. The owner fixed the hood and (if I understood the story correctly) painted it himself. It was unclear if the rest of the car had been repainted or if it was original paint. There were several blemishes in the paint where it appeared that the top layer of blue had come off showing a slightly different shade of blue beneath. There were some areas where it appeared there was a tape line, but it's unclear to me if it was a tape line, or a natural delineation.

There was evidence of some "not crappy, but not great" rust repair on at least one of the dogleg corners.

The blue one had some engine compartment modifications. Probably some sort of electronic ignition aftermarket mod. From what I heard, there was lots of electronic and electrical "thingies" around the house, so it appears the owner had some electrics experience.

I would be willing to use the term "Survivor" for the blue one if it was original paint. I would use the term "good neglected condition" if it had been sprayed.

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Again, I feel for the seller as there's a few people on there trying to create themselves as the focal point for all things 'Z'. It goes to show just how people believe what they read on line and how when a collective get together it can become the norm.

Not to mention the endless advertising that one of the posters does.

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I have a 60k mile car and a ~110k? mile car neither of which could be verified in a court of law.  My observation was the pics of the front suspension seem to have quite a bit of surface rust for a 38k car.

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10 hours ago, HS30-H said:

What did you think about the carpet discussion?

One of the latest came-out-of-nowhere bulk dealers states that he has seen no variation on '69 through '73(?) carpets (says they were all the same), which I find pretty remarkable seeing as the very first type of carpeting in North American market cars was manufactured by a third party in the USA until the factory started fitting them a little later on. Identical?

One of his customers is backing him up, of course. It's like a Punch and Judy show. 

 

Can you point me to the carpet discussion?  I have not seen that. Facebook?  I need to work on my reading skills.  I'm  a skim reader.  It always gets me in trouble.

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37 minutes ago, Jason240z said:

Again, I feel for the seller as there's a few people on there trying to create themselves as the focal point for all things 'Z'. It goes to show just how people believe what they read on line and how when a collective get together it can become the norm.

Not to mention the endless advertising that one of the posters does.

The original paint/non-original paint thing started to get silly, and the pushing for a paint thickness meter examination started to look like bullying from at least two people who have an interest in prices going up. Surely if anyone wants to verify the paint they should go and see the car in person and make their own decision, and that would be their advantage over others in the auction format?

I'm still not sure how these BaT auctions can be classified? I've always considered auctions as a format akin to a game of poker, where serious buyers don't want to show their hand until the last moment and the 'game' was to get something for less than you think it is truly worth. Instead, BaT seem to foster the idea of getting the price up no matter what, and some of the people making comments on the live auction are actively showing their hand ("I'm out", "I'm intending to win this"). I find it truly bizarre.  

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26 minutes ago, 87mj said:

Can you point me to the carpet discussion?  I have not seen that. Facebook?  I need to work on my reading skills.  I'm  a skim reader.  It always gets me in trouble.

The 'carpet discussion' developed in the comments section of the Bring-a-Trailer auction for the car which is the topic of this thread: 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-datsun-240z-43/

You'll need to scroll through the comments to see the 'carpet discussion' develop, but if you really want to go in-depth I recommend you search our own forum here for far better reference material.

 

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10 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

The original paint/non-original paint thing started to get silly, and the pushing for a paint thickness meter examination started to look like bullying from at least two people who have an interest in prices going up. Surely if anyone wants to verify the paint they should go and see the car in person and make their own decision, and that would be their advantage over others in the auction format?

I'm still not sure how these BaT auctions can be classified? I've always considered auctions as a format akin to a game of poker, where serious buyers don't want to show their hand until the last moment and the 'game' was to get something for less than you think it is truly worth. Instead, BaT seem to foster the idea of getting the price up no matter what, and some of the people making comments on the live auction are actively showing their hand ("I'm out", "I'm intending to win this"). I find it truly bizarre.  

yes, buying cars, then 'swapping back', constant messages about spending 'free money' on them due to increasing values.  I'd love to play poker against those two.

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Price hasn’t moved so I guess there’s a lot of talk and not much action by these “experts” in the comments section on BaT.

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17 hours ago, 26th-Z said:

 

If I could take a moment and call out the the 'facebook experts' for their serious lack of knowledge and inability to seek reliable, documented information.  Whew!!! Those people say the damnedest things!

True, and unfortunately, I get drawn into these commentaries on BaT. 

I can say it here, but dare not say it on BaT as I would probably get pretty beat up there, but I have to say that the 'Guild' guy is pretty hard to live with.   He has sold a number of Z cars on BaT and is quite the salesman, but is beyond obnoxious in pushing his points.  And, he pretty much thinks that he is the authority on the 240Z, often embarrassing himself. 

It is sad that he is pushing the paint issue. While important, the only reason he pushes it is that it is a service that he provides.  While considering himself a restoration shop, I consider most of his work average and for the most part incomplete.  He will do enough work to sell a car and make it look nice, however, the work is often incomplete and just general clean-up.  Again, just enough to make the sale.   The thing that bothers me the most is that he claims to speak for the entire Z community and to be the top authority.  Sadly, he is neither of these.

Anyway, this is just my personal opinion.  Sorry in advance to any who are offended. 

Edited by motorman7
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Bidding always escalates during the last few minutes of the auction.  I don't expect any movement in price until then.

 

And I agree about the "Guild" guy, he should be barred from posting in any other Z auctions as it is really a conflict of interest for him.

Edited by DougN
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3 hours ago, DougN said:

Bidding always escalates during the last few minutes of the auction.  I don't expect any movement in price until then.

 

And I agree about the "Guild" guy, he should be barred from posting in any other Z auctions as it is really a conflict of interest for him.

 

3 hours ago, motorman7 said:

True, and unfortunately, I get drawn into these commentaries on BaT. 

I can say it here, but dare not say it on BaT as I would probably get pretty beat up there, but I have to say that the 'Guild' guy is pretty hard to live with.   He has sold a number of Z cars on BaT and is quite the salesman, but is beyond obnoxious in pushing his points.  And, he pretty much thinks that he is the authority on the 240Z, often embarrassing himself. 

It is sad that he is pushing the paint issue. While important, the only reason he pushes it is that it is a service that he provides.  While considering himself a restoration shop, I consider most of his work average and for the most part incomplete.  He will do enough work to sell a car and make it look nice, however, the work is often incomplete and just general clean-up.  Again, just enough to make the sale.   The thing that bothers me the most is that he claims to speak for the entire Z community and to be the top authority.  Sadly, he is neither of these.

Anyway, this is just my personal opinion.  Sorry in advance to any who are offended. 

I like his overspray jobs!

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I like his overspray jobs!
And his "efficient" method of leaving the glass and window components in the doors along with other items not removed on his "exploded" paint jobs.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

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Truly unbelievable. I would have said $30k tops...

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Those original low mileage cars are going for crazy money.  Can't believe a mechanic thought it might be $138K miles. 

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So with the BaT car at$66k, the blue car could be cleaned up and easily be worth a good bit more than it sold for. It might have lower actual miles and I think it was a 50% lower vin...

I am not surprised it went that high. I would have guesses 50k if no major flaws. I didn't look at it that close but it seemed "presentable"

Edited by Patcon

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