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sweatybetty

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i have gotten so used to having to order parts for this car that i almost cost myself a lot of $$. i need a water pump, so went on-line to order one. that was dumb! look at the cost difference here. less than 1/2 the price and no shipping. they dont have it in stock, but it will be there in the morning.

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic15t/16-7021

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-water-pump-new-t1070/5760232-P?searchTerm=water+pump&zoneAssigned=1&prefStoredSet=1&prefZC=97470

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I've bought a couple of parts from Advance over the years then I found out about buying online and using a promo code, driving down there and picking it up.  Now with smartphones I can go there and get what I need, go sit in my car and order it with the promo code and pay 20% to 30% less.  https://www.retailmenot.com/view/advanceautoparts.com

 

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On 9/15/2016 at 5:21 PM, S30Driver said:

Let us know how the Tough One pump works out.  20 bucks!

Hopefully the picture showing a cast impeller is accurate - what you get & not a stamped steel one.

what the difference? the one i got is stamped. if it moves water and doesnt leak??is that worth $27+shipping?

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9 hours ago, sweatybetty said:

what the difference? the one i got is stamped. if it moves water and doesnt leak??is that worth $27+shipping?

 

Absolutely, but if the cooling system isn't maintained the stamped steel impeller will wear out faster then the cast iron one.  The real problem is that the cooling system is so easy to forget about if it is working properly, if the system is maintained, every 3 yrs drain the coolant, flush the system, fill with fresh coolant then the chances of overheating and prematurely worn out pumps would be very low. But it's a nasty job and easily put off, a drive in the country is much more fun then changing the coolant.

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I think that the thinking is that the cast impellers and housing are shaped to avoid cavitation at high RPM.  That there's a functional reason for the thick curved blades.  Simply replacing them with stamped steel without redesigning the rest of the mechanism isn't sufficient to maintain function.  Don't know if it's true but the race guys even spend a lot of time trying to find the diesel water pumps, which have cast impellers and a housing design that pushes more water.  The diesel pump design kind of adds weight to the argument that the pumps are not as simple as they seem.

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The're definitely more desirable to some people for supposed benefits.  The topic rolls through often.  If you look around the internet you'll find that the design of the stamped blades isn't even consistent.  Some stamped steel blades might have actual engineering design efforts behind them, others might be just shaped to look right.

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/55214-water-pump-options-and-where-to-get/

 

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On 9/16/2016 at 2:30 PM, Zed Head said:

Joseph from TheZstore was just on the site.  Let him know.  Odd that they don't show the impeller blades when it's fairly well-known that people don't like them.  Needs fixing.

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/16-7021

@Joseph@TheZStore

Hello folks. I was last on the site June 24th (hangs head in shame), and have had my head buried in our new Business Computer System migration, so didn't notice the callout right away, sorry about that. There will be follow up to come, and your contact on these forums, James@TheZStore will jump in (you can always ask him whatever you need, he'll take care of you).

My nephew and I took that image back in 2008, lol. I honestly wasn't aware of the impeller debate, perhaps I should get out more. I think he asked me whether to take a picture of both sides, and I couldn't think of any reason to show the bottom... Tony D can knock me in the head for not knowing when he next sees me.  : )

Obviously I've read both sides of the debate now, and see good points for each. Unfortunately the top brand out there, Paraut (cast impeller) has been discontinued. Our supplier did find likely the last three remaining new (that he can find anyway), and they are up at the store (the cost kicked the price a bit, but still less than Amazon, and I doubt they can get them any longer. Just use the link Zed Head has above). If any of you order one of those last three let me know here after you order it and I'll get you a break on the price (limited to the 3 we found). I am currently looking for another "premium" water pump to replace the Paraut. James will let you know what we find in Japan.

We also switched to a better supplier on the regular water pumps (GMB at the moment), which are still good quality, just with stamped impellers, and were able to drop the price way down. Greg (the Z expert here) was familiar with the debate, and noted to me that they have good points as well, since the stamped impellers are lighter and less of a load on the bearing, and the fin surface area is usually larger than on the cast impellers, and move the same volume of water as the stock units. I'm sure the debate will rage on though. I think I'd be comfortable with either on my 71, which I'll probably need soon anyway. I might go with an electric one if I can save a few beans up. Guess I should get it running right and not burning oil first, lol.

Thanks for your patience with slow responses and slow fixes, which is especially that way as we finish the mega-task of migrating our old Unix system to a whole new bright and shiny one. Hopefully the new store that is being redone at the same time will be worth the effort.

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Sorry Joseph, it must have been James that was on.  I should have checked your profile.  His profile says he was on here 19 hours ago. @James@TheZStore

The manufacturers all say the stamped impeller is the same or better as the cast one but never show data.  So it looks like just standard cost-cutting.

This is the the wrong forum to mention Tony D.  His abrasive forum manners aren't popular here at all.  He doesn't contribute.

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The one I received is a GMB, made in Thailand. It is the same as ZH's photo above missing one bolt hole reinforcement.

 

Edit: I should add that other GMB parts from MSA have worked out fine (universal joints for instance). So, this pump could be just fine. I suppose the key point is that I would prefer to not go from something that is fairly well known to me to something that is less well known.

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3 hours ago, Zed Head said:

Sorry Joseph, it must have been James that was on.  I should have checked your profile.  His profile says he was on here 19 hours ago. @James@TheZStore

The manufacturers all say the stamped impeller is the same or better as the cast one but never show data.  So it looks like just standard cost-cutting.

This is the the wrong forum to mention Tony D.  His abrasive forum manners aren't popular here at all.  He doesn't contribute.

Lol, no need to be sorry, I was just embarrassed that I hadn't been on in so long, and felt the need to fess up.

I would guess your estimation of the impellers is accurate, the stamped ones certainly would be cheaper to make. Greg's thoughts about them being lighter on the bearing and usually having more fin surface area were interesting thoughts though. That is why he is the 40+ year expert and I'm the computer guy who happens to own a 240Z. : )

Ahhh Tony. Love him or hate him, he remains the same.   : )

To anybody interested, I also screwed up and read the wrong listing of the cost increase of the remaining Paraut pumps. Greg dropped the price from where I had it at $59.95 to $46.95, which is better than the discount I was going to offer any of you who ordered one anyway. What we have been told is there are no more coming, these three are it. We still hope to find them or an equivalent.

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I consider Tony a friend and have never met him.  He says it as it is 99% of the time and is usually correct.  He is just getting older and the curmudgeon is showing more these days.

FYI it seems to be somewhat easy to rebuild a water pump if you have press.  We just need a source for the bearing and seals.  This farmer convinced me it is an easier job than modern pressed in wheel bearing.  

It may be possible to remove the bearing and seals from a new pump with pressed impeller and migrate to the original Nissan pump with cast impeller.

I may take a few old ones apart this winter when it is cold and boring here in Canada.  Just gotta see for myself how hard it is to do...new territory is always fun to explore on these beasties.

Say Hi to Tony from Blue!

 

Look See!!!:

 

 

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It would be nice if the pumps could be rebuilt.  Typically it's just one small piece or two that fails, the seal and/or bearing.  I studied the pump and kind of realized you'd need a fairly sturdy and somewhat intricate fixture to do the pressing properly. 

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We're currently working with a manufacturer in Japan to source a high quality replacement since the Paraut units have been discontinued.  I will keep everyone updated once we hear back from them.  I have used GMB water pumps in the past on other vehicles so I wouldn't hesitate to put one in my Z.  I'm more than likely going to be installing one once I upgrade to an aluminum radiator in the next couple of weeks.

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4 hours ago, James@TheZStore said:

We're currently working with a manufacturer in Japan to source a high quality replacement

Just to finish the circle - how are you defining quality?  That's the real question here and the difficult part.  We know what looks right and we know what the factory did.  We don't know much about these replacement parts.  No offense, but just because you'd put one in your car doesn't really tell us much.

I don't want to be negative but everybody wants MSA to be successful.  The perception about the stamped steel blades is out there and will be hard to replace.  Hate to see you pick a low-seller.

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