Just bought a factory restored 72 240Z!

[Bambikiller240]

Thanks for the link Mike! Always wanted to have a copy of this document.

[sblake01]

Vicky, I, too, understood what you meant. But based on other things I've read on this site, I also expected the comments that followed.

The statement was not aimed at anyone, any race, any nationality, any sexual orientation, or any whatever one might attempt to apply to it. It was simply an observation based on what I've seen since I've been here. Here I am attempting to explain my own opinion only to see it twisted into something much more serious than was my intention, which was not serious at all. I think that the rest that followed more than bares out the comment. Can we all just get along?

[Walter Moore]

Whenever I find that I have offended someone by being an arrogant American, I remember that all time classic comic book "It's a mad, mad world" which I read in my youth...

In one of the "skits" an American is in a restaurant in Paris, and asks the waiter for advice on how large of a tip to leave. The waiter with a big smile kindly informs him "Do not worry sir. You are an American! Whatever you do, it will be wrong!"

I crack myself up.

But seriously. Americans in general are no more arrogant than anyone else. The Japanese, Koreans, French, and Dutch people that I have worked with are just as certain of their opinons as I am... but them most of them are engineers, and ALL good engineers are arrogant, it is an essential requirement of the profession. I know because I am one! :stupid:

[gundee]

After reading that restoration checklist. :stupid: Was whoever thought up that program drunk? What made them think that you could sell a 240Z restored to that checklist for less than $80 thousand? And that is just to maybe break even. Cost of parts + cost of car + Labor (California shop labor rates for that matter!) = Does not add up!! Doh.

For example: 750 hours x $100/hr (CA shop rate) = $75,000 just in Labor!

I don't get it.

[kyteler]

You are wrong. Wrong to lump all Americans into a category.

I didn't say ALL Americans, I said the "general American arrogance" if you felt that included yourself and you have to get defensive about it then that's for you to deal with emotionally. However, you must be dillusional if you don't realise what is portrayed and broadcast of America by Americans through-out the rest of the world. A generous amount of things I read on here in conjunction with a good number of years talking to Americans from ALL OVER America via the Internet and also those visiting NZ has bought me to this conclusion. As it happens, most of the Americans I've discussed it with have agreed. By my personal experience this does exist in the American culture a lot more so than I've noticed in others. Also I have conversed with other's that weren't American about it and very few if any have disagreed. I know everybody is an individual, etc etc etc. that's why I used "general". Golly you would have gone off your rocker if I said "THE ALL ENCOMPASSING AMERICAN ARROGANCE!" but I didn't because that's not true by my experience.

If you had simply asked Vicky to "expand and explain" instead of being insulting then...

I didn't think I was being insulting, in NO WAY was I attempting to insult Vicky, for all I knew, I was simply asking to "expand and explain" I even gave what I considered a valid reason why I wished for an explanation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I automatically tacked on the general Kiwi racist attitude to your statement. :mad:

Chris

To this I say.. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHA.

I guess your lifetime of personal experiences with NZ'ers lead you to attempting to use that blinding false generalisation as some form of sarcastic comeback to a non-existent situation, when the two aren't even vaguely comparable. It is lead from your simple misunderstanding from a single person who is quite happy to watch you wave your finger about and get angry at nothing.

SO! to sum it all up.

1) They are NOT Factory restored cars.

2) "specification" wasn't the word that was meant to be used.

And

3) I apologise to Vicky if you felt I was insulting you, I wasn't.

[Zrush]

SO! to sum it all up.

1) They are NOT Factory restored cars.

2) "specification" wasn't the word that was meant to be used.

And

3) I apologise to Vicky if you felt I was insulting you, I wasn't.

Hey Michael,

1) They ARE Nissan "Authorized" vehicles (Factory IS the wrong word)

2) I meant to say specifications but probably should't have put "much better" in front of that word, rather "NISSAN specifications" would have been better, my bad, sorry.

3) No apology necessary, I didn't feel insulted. I've been called a "rice burner" before....now that hurt

Friends now

Vicky

[ChrisA]

To kyteler,

I apologize to you directly. The "racist" comment was wrong. What I should have said was this:

"Stereotyping:

a generalised set of traits and characteristics attributed to a specific ethnic, national, cultural or racial group which gives rise to false expectations that individual members of the group will conform to these traits."

I feel this is what you did. That is my opinion and you don't have to accept it. I felt that you generalized me into a group of which I don't belong.

I understand your response completely. And I fear you have developed a...

"Prejudice:

a body of unfounded opinions or attitudes relating to an individual or group that represent them in an unfavourable light"

I feel that you should have left the comment about "American Arrogance" out of your post because it had no bearing on the topic.

We all have our insecurites and faults. I certainly believe that in all my previous posts to the Kiwi post I had not insinuated that anyone from any other country portrayed a trait I found undesirable.

Sincerely,

Chris Abbott

[daddz]

Good points, all the way through.

Nobody ever seems to remember that the first generation was built down to a price. If it hadn't been designed and assembled in the way it was, then it couldn't have been sold at the price. If it couldn't have been sold at that price ( even allowing slick dealers some leeway to jack the prices up once demand could not meet supply ) then America would not have consumed so many of them. That's a chicken and egg situation.

:cheeky: This circular logic is beginning to remind me of the discussion from a few months ago regarding the "When is it a car?" topic.

Of course, its easy to be wise 30-odd years after the event ( when so much has changed, including us ) and talk about "improving" the cars over and above what they were originally built as. It stands to reason that it can be done "better" today ( with all the subjectivity behind that word ) than it was necessary or possible to do back then. I find it amazing that people think only of what the car turns out like today in the 21st Century, after many hundreds of hours and many thousands of Dollars have been spent on them, and seemingly not about the business pressures 30-odd years ago when Japan was struggling to make products to sell around the world.

:squareeye That's really the whole point for me actually; As I have been unlucky to not have owned a(n) "original" S30 in the truest sense of the word. Most of my Z cars have been repainted at least once and I have had to "unmodify" many a Z car.

I agree. Mohammed really ought to go to the mountain, rather than the mountain coming to Mohammed.

Want to meet me in Japan, daddz?

Actually, this might be a great idea. My friend Satomi and I have been discussing this of late and as her family live near Tokyo this would be a great chance to experience Japan. A friend of a friend has also just returned to Japan and recently has been hired at Nissan HQ. By the way I appreciate the religious aspect of your comment regarding the pilgrimmage.

[HS30-H]

daddz,

I'd recommend trying to schedule any trip to Japan to include one of the bigger yearly meetings of Japanese Z car clubs. You can see photos from such events in my Gallery here.

As your field of interest takes in more than just the first generation Z cars, you probably have a wider

choice of events to choose from.

However, most of them are single-day events. That always gives a possibility of bad weather spoiling them. You have to take that into account.

Cheers,

Alan T.

[zhead240]

The "Vintage Z" badge is on the center console below the shifter. There are also Vintage stickers on each quarter glass. There is also a "Made in Japan" sticker on the passenger side quarter glass. It says "Do not remove sticker. Sticker may only be removed by vehicle owner". That's pretty funny I think.

Vicky

finally got pics developed and put on computer.here they are from zed fest near toronto last month.owner said it was a factory z( bought at auction in arizona) sorry pics aren't too good,think i missed the badge on console, and didn't get engine bay pics. what's your opinion? is it or isn't it a factory z.

[zhead240]

forgot the pics :stupid: :stupid: trying to upload attachment and i get page cannot be displayed.have pateints.thankyou very much

[zhead240]

file won't upload. what gives??