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Mint '71 240Z - More Fun Coming to BaT

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2 minutes ago, christoffel said:

@26th-Z M69  cars have also no rear window defroggers.  Very special that my HLS30-00023 has been very close with your HLS30-00026 on the production line. Here is the engine for #23

9c447fc2-258e-4a10-a35d-c607057bc430.JPG

fef3d445-40a2-4ce8-a9ee-0532ea6fdb86.JPG

Looks great.  Where have you been getting you new radiator hoses from?

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@kats   About the seats of the silver Z432 December 1970 made, that is owned by Mr. Yoshida , Where there already new seat meachanisms used on series 1 cars?E2EF5044-8949-42E4-AC9F-F194BE305B7F.jpeg

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14 minutes ago, christoffel said:

@kats   About the seats of the silver Z432 December 1970 made, that is owned by Mr. Yoshida , Where there already new seat meachanisms used on series 1 cars?

I think you're referring to the 'flip forward lever' of Japanese market Deluxe models?

Here's an image from November 1969-dated factory literature showing the 'Deluxe' variant (Fairlady Z-L and Fairlady Z432) seats with the flip-forward lever:

69-Deluxe-seats-1.JPG

The Japanese market 'Standard' model did not get the flip-forward lever. North American market HLS30U, UN and UV models essentially got the cheaper 'Standard' seats too. 

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@HS30-H  @katsThank you very much!!!! I think you must be Allen!   Kats always mentioned your knowledge!  In the beginning I was only focused on US cars, but I have also some EU cars with VINs around HLS30-39000 and they have the "Delux"seats. So I was confused, becuase US cars around the same VIN had the simple mechanism. I thought they were not correct!  But now for me a big confusion is solved.

Edited by christoffel

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24 minutes ago, christoffel said:

@HS30-H  @katsThank you very much!!!! I think you must be Allen!   Kats always mentioned your knowledge!  In the beginning I was only focused on US cars, but I have also some EU cars with VINs around HLS30-39000 and they have the "Delux"seats. So I was confused, becuase US cars around the same VIN had the simple mechanism. I thought they were not correct!  But now for me a big confusion is solved.

Glad you found it informative.

For me, the BringaTrailer comments section is - once again - proving to be an echo chamber for many of the same-as-usual characters. One contributor suggested that the comments on this particular car be gathered up in digest form as some sort of reference material, but I don't see how that could ever hope to be accurate when so many contributions don't even get past the first level of moderation?

Once again I see larger-than-life character 'Lstepp4re' apparently getting some kind of free pass to post incorrect statements. He's been wittering on about 'Nikra' exhausts (he means Nihon Radiator's 'Nichira' brand) and how Matsua (he means Matsuo) told him that the 240Z was 'designed for the USA', whilst also stating that "stripes on a Z are aftermarket". That would be news to Nissan, who offered them as a showroom option from 1969 onwards on Japanese market cars. There are also stripe kits - in three colours - with a K3110 part number prefix - in the factory R-Drive parts manuals. So of course he's wrong, but an attempted correction doesn't make it past BringaTrailer moderation.  

As the seat question shows, it's wise to look at ALL variants of the S30-series Z as a source of reference. If people are convinced that the "Made For The USA" mantra means they only need to look at USA market variants, then they'll never properly understand their USA market variant.     

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45 minutes ago, christoffel said:

@Jason240z Till now from the US, but working on alternative solution and also some NOS ones

Revive Jalopy in Japan is a great source for items like that. Here are some Revive Jalopy radiator hoses on my 432-R replica project car:

 

Eng-1.JPG

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2 hours ago, christoffel said:

@kats     I was mistaken with my 69 cars about the clip. The later cars have the clip, but a different inspection lid. I have a bad quality picture here.

The early fenders and the plastic clip are on my #3394 car but not anymore on my #3957 car

IMG_0064.jpg

Hi christoffel , that is the second from the beginning , most 1969 cars have that tab .

The first one is very simple, no -tab on the edge . Some of them just have a rubber at that location.Some of them have nothing.

The third one is around December 1969 to January or February 1970 , a metal tab is welded to the lid . 
 

The fourth one is from February or March 1970 , a metal tab is molded in ONE PIECE .

The fifth one , same as the fourth , in ONE PIECE made but got the metal clip .This would be started somewhere around mid 1970 . 
 

Kats

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Hi Alan , I totally agree with you, it is like if I want to know more about myself, I must look into my family , and relatives. Without this point of view , I will never understand what I should be . 
Looking at some variants sometimes gives enlightenment to me why the parts should look like . And it also gives me an idea how to get parts from , etc etc .

Kats

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1 hour ago, HS30-H said:

Revive Jalopy in Japan is a great source for items like that. Here are some Revive Jalopy radiator hoses on my 432-R replica  tribute project car:

 

Edited by 240260280

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17 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

--------------------

If you're embarking on a voyage to define the nuances between real and fake, and all stops in between, I'll come down to the port to wave you off.

It's going to be a long old trip...

 

Oh and, before you sail, I'd be interested to see if you noticed (and can explain...?) the difference between 'replica' and 'replica project'? 

Edited by HS30-H

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5 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

If you're embarking on a voyage to define the nuances between real and fake, and all stops in between, I'll come down to the port to wave you off.

It's going to be a long old trip...

 

Oh and, before you sail, I'd be interested to see if you noticed (and can explain...?) the difference between 'replica' and 'replica project'? 

Just keeping your content accurate.  I believe you need a body to improve the accuracy in replicating.

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@HS30-H  On BAT people don't take you serious when you are not from the US. I guess this L4steppre never took a 240 apart.  Because than he would know that drilling holes in doorcards and doors and putting in screws without prefab the location, wasn't the way the Nissan Factory operated.  

Thanks, I will take a look at Jalopy!!

For me the beauty of the S30's is that they designed it extremely light.    After taking apart several 240's I can see without knowing the VIN# wich of the 2 bodyshells is earlier than the other, teh later one has always more reinforcements.

But still I have to learn a lot of things,  and one day I hope I will have a PS30. I drove the car of Kats in summer 2018 when I visited Japan. 

The S30 wich made me smile the most is this 1970 US (see picture) market car with triple Mikuni's, matching but improved engine with a 2,8 crank, LSD, 5-speed, coilovers and improved brakes. End of september I did a trip with it in the South of France of about 4000KM. To replace this I'm building a period correct HLS30 #156 with all period/Nissan/Datsun competition parts I can get.

image.png

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@kats I should have know this about the inspection lids!    The earliest cars I have after the 69's is #672/913 and 954. I will take a look at their inspection lid. I'm very curious, becuase just a tab welded to the inspection lid souns  like a temporialy fix. I'll show soon some pictures

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19 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

Just keeping your content accurate.

You'll be doing a lot of catching up, as I reckon I correct fifty of your mistakes for every one of mine you'll do me the honour of pointing out.

 

22 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

I believe you need a body to improve the accuracy in replicating.

Not sure you've thought very long about this. The fact is that a "replica" 432-R is a physical and intellectual impossibility, since - in the end - it all comes down to identity. Even if I went to the extremes of having lightweight PZR-style body sections pressed, welded them all together and got everything else spot-on (but still 'fake', right?), such a car could not be considered a true 'replica' of a genuine 432-R without replicating a 432-R chassis number. As that would be illegal, you're snookered.  

And I must say, this is pretty heady stuff coming from somebody who - just last week - was asking what panels were lightweight, and what panels were beefed-up, on a 432-R bodyshell. 

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2 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

Here is the rare bird (photo from @kats)

kats part.jpg

 

Early 432 parts (E42). Don't chase them down without making sure they'll fit a 240Z air cleaner housing.

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Deflecting a discussion is a well known tactic.  Please take the advice as helpful.

I'm working on a tribute to the 1969 blue 240z at the Tokyo Motor Show. I considered the words: replicas, copy, etc. but tribute is the only accurate word.  I was happy that we are both in the same boat but your 432R tribute is a far more challenging effort than mine.

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34 minutes ago, christoffel said:

@HS30-H  On BAT people don't take you serious when you are not from the US. I guess this L4steppre never took a 240 apart.  Because than he would know that drilling holes in doorcards and doors and putting in screws without prefab the location, wasn't the way the Nissan Factory operated.  

 

Personally speaking, I would not be surprised by anything that Nissan/Nissan Shatai (or any of their family of companies and suppliers) did in the early days of production, and/or in the switchover to superseded parts and new models. The principle of Occam's razor usually applies. I'm not saying it was total chaos, but those were heady days. We are well aware that there was always a certain amount of fettling going on, and we have seen evidence of repaired/re-finished (presumably initially rejected as substandard, then rectified and re-introduced to the parts bins) so I would never say never.

The BaT universe for a car like this is - naturally - biased towards the North American viewpoint. But these are Japanese cars, and it's almost like some of those people forget that. The memories of somebody who sold these cars when they were new, or who has owned fifty of the same type, are always of interest - but I'd rather speak to somebody who was working on the production line. Or better still, many people who were working on the production line...

A perfect example of what I'm talking about has just popped up on that BaT auction:

Jeff Segan has just made comment on the rear bumper forward-edge rubbers, after somebody queried their absence on this car. He might need to tread carefully with a "not used on 1970 240Zs" type statement. It's a little like running with scissors...

After all, what does "1970 240Z" mean. What month? What variant (HLS30U/N/V? HS30U? HLS30? How about Aus and NZ?)? You'll end up dancing on a pin.

The E4100 rear bumper forward end 'base' blocks were seen - for example - on the SLE 0630-911027-U factory sales flyer in 1969 (you know, the red car without a clock, radio or antenna, and with cut-and-pasted emblems) and were a feature on Japanese market cars from the first days of deliveries. Applied somewhat haphazardly in Export market cars, they are perhaps a lesson for us in treating sales brochures as reference points and - indeed - any one of these cars with one-size-fits-all ideas about content and conformity. 

 

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14 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

Deflecting a discussion is a well known tactic.  Please take the advice as helpful.

Like I haven't been considering it for the last 15 years I've been building it... LOL

 

15 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

I'm working on a tribute to the 1969 blue 240z at the Tokyo Motor Show. I considered the words: replicas, copy, etc. but tribute is the only accurate word.  I was happy that we are both in the same boat but your 432R tribute is a far more challenging effort than mine.

A philosophically pragmatic 'tribute' I presume. Unless you have period interior and engine bay shots...? We live in hope.  

Final touch will be the 'Fairlady Z Export version' plate. Has to be done... ?

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3 hours ago, 240260280 said:

FYI  HLS30-00013, 00016, and 00032 have slightly different wing nuts:

So do HLS30-00026 and HLS30-00027

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