z3beemer

Another Clutch Pedal Question

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    Ok I ran a search here for clutch pedal swap and spent the last hour reviewing the posts on the issue and I'm probably more confused than ever.  I recently purchased a 73 240Z Automatic that came with a spare engine/ manual trans from a 72 240z (or so I'm told).  So I'll be swapping the trans to stick.  I know the existing pedal work will work for the change out by changing the brake pedal and adding the clutch pedal.  In reading all the post there seems to be quite a bit of disagreement on what will work and what  won't.  Does anyone know for CERTAIN if 72 pedals will work in the 73 or do the pedals have to out of a 73?

    Thanks in advance

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    Wait!  I just browsed over to zcar and see that cg is already here (there).  

     

    Here's a link that shows when things changed, by build date.  But just because they changed doesn't mean they won't interchange.  I seem to remember that cgsheen knew a lot about the swap.  Might be wrong.  I also have vague memories of people suggesting that if you just the whole box, Part #16, with everything in it, that it makes it easy.

    http://www.carpartsmanual.com/datsuns30/Datsun-Z-Index/Brake/Brake-Clutch-Pedal

    @cgsheen1

    Edited by Zed Head

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    The 73 clutch master is spaced farther from the brake master as the booster size increased. The clutch pedal has an extra little L bracket welded to it that the slave arm attaches to, that gives it the over -to-the-left offset it needs. 

    Earlier pedals with bolt in (main pivot bolt),  but you will have to add your own little L bracket to get the master rod to line up.

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    Here’s a thread I started on my 73 auto swap. Seemed to me I initially went with an early pedal and it worked, but at an awkward angle. I later installed a 73 pedal. The 2nd pic is from my thread with the early pedal....the 1st pic (dark pic that I just ran out and took for you) with the 73 pedal. Note how much closer to the brake pedal the 73 is (correct geometry). I’d go with the 73 pedal if it were me. IMO

     

    517B3C42-D9FD-40AE-9CC3-39BA7ED35534.jpeg

    7828B699-8A54-4D48-9EB6-9C59B9A71A23.jpeg

    Edited by Diseazd
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    Like Zkars said- it’s all about the size of the brake MC booster unit getting bigger and causing the spacing of the holes in the firewall to change - this changing the spacing - this changing the alignment of the rod going thru the firewall - this screwing up everyone’s day

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    20 hours ago, Zed Head said:

     I also have vague memories of people suggesting that if you just the whole box, Part #16, with everything in it, that it makes it easy.

    Well, easy in regard to the pedals themselves...  You don't have to do anything there.  (Or, if you already have the dash out of the car.) 

    The pedal box is probably the very first interior dash thing installed in a bare chassis.  Everything else near there gets attached to it or installed over it - thus requiring quite a bit of disassembly to replace it.

    (although, in my old age it's probably easier for me to pull the whole dash than lay under the steering column while trying to fish the pedal, bolt, spring (little plastic things under the spring ends), clutch pin and clip, blah blah blah...)

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    @Diseazd Hi Guy,

    Can you compare the photographs I have taken below with a ruler at the top inboard edge of the clutch pedal, with the photograph and measurement being centered on the brake pedal itself?

    Note: The top right corner of the clutch pedal is at the 4 inch mark / 10cm  respectively in the respective photographs.

    The actual measurement to the top left of the brake pedal appears to be 2 1/8" or 5.5cm.

    Off-topic, it was great to meet you at ZCon, although I think we've ran into each other at some local Z shows back in the day.

    Wayne

    20181112_152148.jpg

    20181112_152129.jpg

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    On 11/11/2018 at 4:04 PM, zKars said:

    The 73 clutch master is spaced farther from the brake master as the booster size increased. The clutch pedal has an extra little L bracket welded to it that the slave arm attaches to, that gives it the over -to-the-left offset it needs. 

    Earlier pedals with bolt in (main pivot bolt),  but you will have to add your own little L bracket to get the master rod to line up.

    @zKars although the photograph isn't that clear, I didn't see any 'L' bracket.

    This was taken off HLS30-16303*

     

    20181112_153311.jpg

    20181112_153324.jpg

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    Hi Wayne.....That distance is just under 2 inches on the above 73. BTW, number 16,303 is a 1970 240Z.....it wouldn’t have the offset bracket.

    Guy

    Edited by Diseazd
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    7 hours ago, cgsheen1 said:

     

    (although, in my old age it's probably easier for me to pull the whole dash than lay under the steering column while trying to fish the pedal, bolt, spring (little plastic things under the spring ends), clutch pin and clip, blah blah blah...)

    There's no easy way around that floorboard.  It was easier to rebuild the engine than the heater core for me.

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    1 hour ago, Diseazd said:

    Hi Wayne.....That distance is just under 2 inches on the above 73. BTW, number 16,303 is a 1970 240Z.....it wouldn’t have the offset bracket.

    Guy

    Thank you Guy @Diseazd, I was told it was a 1973 but did not do any additional research to confirm that.

    @z3beemer, Do you still want the assembly knowing that you will need to modify it? I will gladly refund you money plus 10% due to may lack of knowledge of the part I was selling. I have your address and a postal money order will be on the way on Thursday unless I heaR otherwise. If you respond sooner than Thursday, then it will go that day. I just want to make sure that the part I am selling is the RIGHT part that will bolt in WITHOUT any modification on your part.

    Wayne

    Edited by wal280z
    spelling error

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    First let me thank you all for your replies to my dilemma.  I'm new here and I really appreciate everyone's input and eagerness to help out.  I think I found a home for my Z project.  I'm still now exactly sure what works and what doesn't on my 73 Z.  So let me pose a few questions.  Diseazd informed us that the vin # on the parts Wal280Z  and I were discussing were from a 72 Z and not a 73.  I don't know much about how Datsun did their vin numbers but mine is 152810 and was manufactured Mar 1973.  Wayne's vin #  is 163037.  I would think with it being 10,000 digits higher it would be a 73 as well (yes/no?). Second, the "L" bracket... in looking in the Datsun factory manual, it does not show the bracket.  It just shows the clevis on the master cylinder attaching directly to the pedal.  Maybe it is just showing a "typical" illustration and not an actual one. If all it takes is adding the L bracket to the pedal I can easily weld one onto the clutch pedal.  Third: I was wondering if anyone who has a 73 would be able to provide a picture of the actual 73 clutch pedal and a picture of the brake and clutch master cylinders as viewed from the engine compartment.

    Thanks again for all your help, hopefully I'll be able to return the favor.

    Paul (z3beemer)

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    1 hour ago, z3beemer said:

    First let me thank you all for your replies to my dilemma.  I'm new here and I really appreciate everyone's input and eagerness to help out.  I think I found a home for my Z project.  I'm still now exactly sure what works and what doesn't on my 73 Z.  So let me pose a few questions.  Diseazd informed us that the vin # on the parts Wal280Z  and I were discussing were from a 72 Z and not a 73.  I don't know much about how Datsun did their vin numbers but mine is 152810 and was manufactured Mar 1973.  Wayne's vin #  is 163037.  I would think with it being 10,000 digits higher it would be a 73 as well (yes/no?). Second, the "L" bracket... in looking in the Datsun factory manual, it does not show the bracket.  It just shows the clevis on the master cylinder attaching directly to the pedal.  Maybe it is just showing a "typical" illustration and not an actual one. If all it takes is adding the L bracket to the pedal I can easily weld one onto the clutch pedal.  Third: I was wondering if anyone who has a 73 would be able to provide a picture of the actual 73 clutch pedal and a picture of the brake and clutch master cylinders as viewed from the engine compartment.

    Thanks again for all your help, hopefully I'll be able to return the favor.

    Paul (z3beemer)

    I believe Diseazd missed the "x'd" out last number of the vin. Yes I would expect they are both 73's

    @Zup

    Do you have the ability to make some pictures of that museum car of yours?

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    Found another though that shows his 1970 has the "L".  I might be looking at the wrong part.  Post #16.  Either way, it looks simple enough to add or remove.  There is a lot of slop from there to the master cylinder.  It's not a precision piece.

     

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    7 hours ago, Patcon said:

    I believe Diseazd missed the "x'd" out last number of the vin. Yes I would expect they are both 73's

    @Zup

    Do you have the ability to make some pictures of that museum car of yours?

    Yep, sure did Charles....add a digit and it’s a 73....get that Wayne?

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    My 12/70 240Z  number 16502 has the clutch pedal with the "L" offset bracket on it also.  The pedal could have been swapped at some point by someone, although the pedals all line up as they should. I never had any problems with it other the the pivot that the pedal hangs from was severely worn.

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