If it still looks like a Z and sounds like a Z then it is still a Z...IMO

I have no problem with mods and I can appreciate craftsmanship, but some mods move the car out of the Z realm for me. For example, a GTO bodied Z is no longer a Z. It's a GTO kit car. A Z with a SBC isn't to my taste, but it's still more of a Z than a GTO replica. Same goes for convertible Z cars. Once the roofline is changed, it's not really a Z to me. I do like regular body kits including front and rear fascias, wings, airdams, flairs, etc. I think many of those enhance the Z-ness of the car if don't right.

This might wizz some people off, but to me, a bone-stock 2+2 S30 is barely a Z. They can look good with mods, but the stock ones are a huge compromise to what a Z is all about. Again, I think it's the roofline.

Agreed on all points, even the part about owners doing what they like. But I wasn't talking about value, or correctness, or collectibility. I was talking about personality and character. A V8 Z is a very different car than a stock or resto-mod. Better in some ways? Yes. But the personality is different. Not essentially the same car. To me, that personality is important. Less so to others.

I totally agree. As the original owner of my '71 Z I know exactly what pulled me into the showroom to buy it - the shape, the engine, the interior configuration. Replace any of those characteristics and it's no longer a Z as the factory intended.

I have no problem with owners who do body mods, engine transplants, or interior changes. But, the result of those changes is no longer the Z that I saw on display in the Tokyo Ginza in 1971 and purchased when I returned to the States shortly thereafter.

Dennis

Arne,

I poised the question for a personal answer because our car choices are so personal-most of us can respect the pride, effort and time that went into a car without getting into whether or not it is as we would have built it-much like Mr. K in the early reference to more power.

Alan,

I love it when you come to the table!

There is a huge portion of Z-ness that is visual-the body and interior design team got it right-with some input from Mr. K. I think the body is what pulls people in and gets them interested to begin with. The shape is part of the uniqueness of a Z car, one of the things that grabbed me from the beginning was that an S30 only strongly resembles another S30. That silhouette is un-mistakable.

The interior fits the car, and while I understand and agree with adding more comfortable seats, I would want to update the padding in original seats or reupholster others to favor the originals. To me keeping Z ness means every upgrade should match the essential design elements of the car, not use the car as a backdrop to make them stand out.

FWIW: as an owner of an Alpha 1 GTO with an L28et with triple Webers-I agree it is no longer a Z, but an offspring, with some similarities and some serious deviations, but putting a body kit on a car is not done to keep the original character of the car-but to radically change it-but because of its vin it is still 17 letters or so part Z.

My first car was a '76 2+2. It was a Z in my eyes, though I will admit adding an L28Et in 1984 gave it more Z-ness!

Edited July 30, 201213 yr by hls30.com

The sound of the inline 6 L series motor wound up on any straight on any race track is an incredible sound......music to my ears. When I hear a V8 on the same straight, I expect to see a Cobra, a Corvette or a Mustang. IMO, that sound is what makes a Z a Z. I'll never forget the first time I heard (and saw) Morton and Sharp coming down the hill to the Esses at Road Atlanta. It's what makes a Z a Z............as it should be! IMHO

Yup, that sound is a big part of it to me as well. That's one big reason I spent way too much on customizing the exhaust on my Z shortly before I sold it - the sound of that inline six. I do like the sound of a V8, but the music of an inline six is my favorite.

Edited July 30, 201213 yr by Arne

If it ;

Looks like a duck;

That “we all fell in love with it the first time we saw it” look, the face with little or no makeup, long lovely body lines and unmistakable rear end..

Smells like a duck;

Subtle “odour” of exhaust, and/or raw gas, that blast of Japanese plastic when you first get in...

Quacks like a duck;

The sweet song of the in-line 6 from behind, and if you’re lucky, triples breathing from the front at the same time...

Then it’s a duck...

The make and model listing on the vehicle title determines whether it is a "Datsun 240Z" (or 260, 280Z). Everything else is just emotional fluff.

The make and model listing on the vehicle title determines whether it is a "Datsun 240Z" (or 260, 280Z). Everything else is just emotional fluff.

Yup. And isn't that emotional fluff why we all buy the cars we buy? Then, some of us tend to booger them up. If it wasn't for our desire for emotional fluff, all cars would look, sound, and run the same.

Dennis

Edited July 30, 201213 yr by psdenno

I know Lee pretty well and he's free to blast me but I don't prefer non Datsun/Nissan swaps. This goes for any car i've ever owned. I just can't get over a swap of a motor not made by the same manufacturer( I said this to Lee the day he brought that car home ). Now with that being said, that LS1 powered Z is a FU(!^% blast to drive. I think radical exterior mods, roof chops, stretches, hideous body kits etc make it not a Z. If it doesn't retain the independant suspension in the rear its not a Z. If you can't tell what it is because of all the exterior mods, its not a Z. I own 2 Z cars, both 240's, both made within 4 months of eachoter, both basically stock looking rust and all. I am diligently working under the hood on the one with an L series turbo motor but I pondered RB, VG, VQ swaps, but to me its not a Z if I went any other way. Lee's car is a great subject for this thread. Is it a Z? anyone who see's it will think so. Anyone who takes the risk to run it when the light turns green will think otherwise. Me coming from stock car territory frown upon small block swaps. Its just too easy and too played out, they swap chevy motors into every damn thing with wheels here. If its not for a Chevy small block its not in stock at the parts store you get where i'm going? However looking at the attention to detail they took when they built Lee's car one might change their mind because it is done the best you could possibly do. For an answer from me, if it looks like a Z its a Z, would I swap anything other than an L series in it probably not. Swaps are murky water but i'm not a purist by any means, the real reason we drive these things is that feeling when that right toe drops.

I am looking for how you feel about the modifications made to a Z car, not what the state/local government fits it into their tax base as. John I want your emotional fluf! Don't take that the wrong way, Nudge, nudge, wink, wink! You are in good company, I had to get on Carl this way in the "Classic" thread. My first consideration in buying any Z is purely emotional, then I use condition/modification to determine what I am willing to pay for it. This thread isn't about pricing or buying a Z, it is about what you consider the essence of a Z.

Edited July 30, 201213 yr by hls30.com

............

Slight body mods are ok, a scoop, some spoilers and flairs and shaved bumpers add to the cars lines. Huge body kits, replicar kits, and sorry OJ but V8 transplants, make it into something it was never meant to be, a slick and nimble little back road terror. As I said before, if you want a Vette, just buy one. I can't believe that that swap didn't hurt the twistie road handeling of the car, there is such a thing as too much power unless you like going really fast in a strait line.