Zinc Additives, Cam Shaft Or Rocker Wear, And Mileage - A Poll

[Zed Head]

I'm on about mile # 30,000 of my old 1978 stock 280Z engine and have never used a zinc additive or special oil on this engine.  Just common oils, like Quaker State and Pennzoil 10-40W.  I think that my engine has about 150,000 miles on it.  No problems or signs of excessive wear.

 

If you have the time, please post some details on how many miles are on your engine, how many miles you've driven it since oils changed, and if you've had any cam shaft wear.

 

Just trying to collect more real data on the zinc issue.  Maybe I should be running Rotella.

[Mike W]

So when I did my rebuild about 2 1/2 years ago, I upgraded to an Isky Stage II cam.  They only recommended 2 oils to use.  One was Brad Penn and the other was Valvoline Racing.  The primary reason was the inclusion of zinc.  I started using the Brad Penn ever since and couldn't be happier.

 

Just this past weekend I completed an upgrade to my intake manifold and "while I was at it", I decided to also change out my head gasket as I was starting to observe some minor "weeping" of coolant on the passenger side of the block.  As a result of this effort, I was able to inspect my head as well as the cylinders in the block, and everything looks as it was when it was first put together about 2 1/2 years ago (and probably 5000 - 6000 miles)  In that time I believe that I changed my oil twice at about 3000 mile increments.  Admittedly I did not take measurements of any of the components and so this was all visual, but there was nothing that I observed that gave any indication of unusual wear.

 

I am sold on Brad Penn (it even feels different than normal oil) and from my recent teardown, will continue using it even though its a little difficult to source (I get mine on Amazon) and more expensive than regular oil.  There's a good reason that this is only one of two oils that Isky recommends.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Mike.

[Zed Head]

Do they recommend it forever or for break-in and you just kept using it?  Just to be clear.  I get the "extra insurance" or "can't go wrong" inclination, I'm just really curious about the true need.

 

In your case, you have a performance cam, maybe ground from Isky chosen material, not a regrind from Nissan metal?  Does the Isky cam use stock springs or their own?

 

Trying to get the details. Thanks for adding.

[rcb280z]

I have nearly 101,000 miles on my "overhaul" I did in 91'. Rings, all bearings, valve seals, 3 angle grind, timing kit. Didn't have any major work nor did I have to replace any major engine parts. I have been using Castrol 20W50 since then and have no problems or signs of excessive wear here. Here are a couple pics of my cam.

 

My engine is stock BTW

Edited April 14, 2015 by rcb280z

[SledZ]

I am putting an engine together with the Isky cam and they recommend using the Brad Penn break in oil, once that's done I plan on using the Valvoline Z1 from there on out.

I think the zinc makes sense for the break in and probably a few oil changes after that. I run plain ole oil in two other vintage cars I have, never synthetic. 

[madkaw]

I had a Schneider cam/kit in my car and used zinc additive initially and arbitrary after that with whatever oil was on sale- mostly Castrol gtx. Despite the funky wear on my lash pads the cam lobes looked perfectly polished .

[Dr. 240Z]

Here's my 'for what is worth':

 

After breaking in an engine rebuild I thought a full synthetic would be wise choice...it wasn't!!

 

Replaced the cam, and reverted to Castrol GTX with a supplement of ZDDP...no more issues

 

ZDDP is cheap, readily available, and appears to serve its purpose.

 

George

[Zed Head]

 

After breaking in an engine rebuild 

 

Replaced the cam, and reverted to Castrol GTX with a supplement of ZDDP...no more issues

 

ZDDP is cheap, readily available, and appears to serve its purpose.

 

How did you break in the engine rebuild and was this a new cam, reground cam, or used stock cam?  How many miles before damage and what kind of damage?

 

"Appears" is the operative word.  I'm trying to find out what's really needed.  No offense.  It's in the details somewhere.

 

I saw the guys on Fast 'n' Loud destroy a cam in a rebuilt engine, supposedly because they used cheap oil and a zinc additive.  It was a push rod engine.  They got it rebuilt and used the "special break-in oil with zinc already in it" (Brad Penn?, couldn't tell) and went on their merry way.  The car probably has 10 miles on it by now, and who knows, may have destroyed its cam again.  

 

Anyway, I see three regular oils with no major issues, two "can't hurts", a break-in plus a few oil changes, and a destroyed cam shaft (reason unclear), so far.

 

Not judging or drawing a conclusion just collecting stories.

[Zed Head]

Here's some ad copy from Comp Cams just to illustrate.  Everything in the ad implies that you only need it for break-in.  "The critical break-in process".  

 

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=CC&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=159

 

It is kind of amusing though that the break-in additive is an "extreme pressure additive".  Like the stuff they put in GL-5 oils.  One of the other lubricant issues that has some "can't hurt" concepts behind it.

[rcb280z]

I forgot to add some info. I change the oil every 3000 miles give or take a 100. Adjust valves twice a year. Have never added any additives.

 

Sorry, should have added this info above.

[Mike W]

So to answer some of Zed's earlier questions. 

 

The guidance from Isky on oil is primarily for break in.  I continue to use it based on positive experience and the cost delta based on the frequency of changes is insignificant to me. 

 

The cam itself is an Isky grind and not a regrind of an OEM Datsun / Nissan cam.  It uses stock springs as well as rockers. 

 

I've attached a PDF of the motor oil warning that came with my cam so you can see exactly what they are saying.

 

Mike.

 

103836.PDF

[Chickenman]

Bill Rhodes of Bill's Datsun Shoppe in Clackamus Or has been building Datsun street and Race engines for over 37 years. The guy knows his stuff....

 

For break-in I believe he used Delo 30wt HDEO oil. It's only in for about 75 to 100 miles. After 100 miles of breakin, he recommends a Pennsylvania Grade Dino oil such as Pennzoil 20w-50. After 1,000 miles you can switch to a synthetic or stay with a Pennsylvania Grade base stock oil in a 10w-40 or higher viscosity. The reason for the 10w-40 rating or higher is that those weights do not meet Energy Star ratings because of there viscosity. Thus they do not have to comply with SM or SN ratings and are frequently formulated for use in older engines. After 1,000 miles you can stay with a Pennsylvania grade oil such as Pennzoil oil. But he recommends at least a 10w-40  for the reasons mentioned above.

 

I've had the same recommendations from the machine shop who's been building my race and street engines for the last 30+ years. I've followed their advice and have never had a Cam Lobe or lifter wear problems on any of my engines. This was mainly on SBC race engines.

 

Dino oils seem to be fine for our engines. With stock cams and springs they are not hard on Valvetrains. And the spray bar system keeps the cam well lubricated ( If its not broken ) . I choose to use the best Synthetics that I can because:

 

1: I've had excellent experiences with high end Synthetic oils. I've seen the tear downs for my race engine freshening and the results are always excellent. For the last 30+ years. So my engine lubrication choices are obviously working.

 

2: The Z gets stored for long periods of time. One of the big advantages to Synthetics is that they cling to metal surface much better than Dino oil. Your worst wear occurs when an engine is dry started. Synthetic oils reduce that wear. That is a proven fact. BTW... the build up and maintainence of a ZDDP level ( Boundary layer bearing protection ) is one of the main reasons to use a higher ZDDP engine oil in Vintage cars or cars that do not get driven much.

 

3: Oil is cheap. My engines aren't.

 

I've used Amsoil, Redline, Motul, Liqui Moly and recently Rotella T6 5w-40 in my Audi ( since 2006 ). The Audi has 225,000 km's on it and engine looks like new. All the time I've owned it it's been on mainly Amsoil 5w-40 Euro Blend, or Rotella T-6 5w-40 full synthetic. Amsoil is great, but you can't beat the Rotella T-6 price point. I prefer a slightly thicker oil for the Z and SBC engines ( at least a 10w-30 in something like Amsoil ) because they are older designs and a 5w-30 or 5w-40 is too thin for the bearing clearances that the car is designed with.

 

My SBC engines got the best 10w-30 synthetic I could find. That was usually Amsoil or Redline. Amsoil has great HTHS properties, as doe Rotella T6.

 

Mobile One I tend to stay away from as it breaks down under high temperature and loads. I have seen this for myself on numerous occasions. The old Mobile One formulations ( 1990's ) were good. The new formulations are crap. Exception possibly being the Mobil 15w-50race oils, which are apparently still the old formulation... and not Energy Star compliant. Are we starting to see a trend here folks?? ( Energy Star = bad for HP and Vintage engines )

 

Castrol products? I try these every 10 years or so when they go on sale..... it takes me that long to forget how bad their oils are. Immediate increase in mechanical noise, coloring of oil and reduction in idle RPM are warning signs of increased friction. Every time I try ANY Castrol motor oil I end up with the same results and end up draining and refilling with a better oil.

 

Just my .02c. YMMV