Tie rod wiggle

[z boy mn]

Hello everyone, I was replacing my outer tie rods this weekend and noticed on the right side that there was some "wiggle" for the old one as I threaded it off (counting the turns, of course).

I said to myself, "well, good thing I'm replacing this one as it seems a little worn!" Trouble is when I threaded the new one on, it also had the same wiggle...like the bolt for the inner tie rod wasn't quite large enough. The "wiggle" didn't change as I threaded it on (18 turns), and the locknut seems to spin and move about just fine (it didn't wiggle).

When I got to the driver's side, that tie rod threaded off and on just fine, no wiggle at all. I tightened everything down, which felt secure, but thought I better check with the experts.

Is this an expected/predictable/common thing, or should I go hunting for another inner tie rod (which I see now are rather hard to find) for the passenger side?

Edited March 18, 2018 by z boy mn

[jonathanrussell]

I want to make sure I am following what you are describing. Are you saying that while you are turning the outer tie rod round and round threading it onto the inner tie rod threads, the outer rod has play, seems like a mismatch in thread size?

If so, here are my thoughts. If not, please clarify.

I haven't seen this before but I would bet that your inner tie rods are original and OEM (not after market). Therefore I would trust that the original inner tie rod threaded shaft is as it should be. That means that your new outer tie rod may be aftermarket and not as precise as it could be. What happens if you re-install the old outer tie rod? Does it wiggle around? If you can narrow to the new outer tie rod, you may just need to exchange for another tie rod.

The key thing with the original inner tie rods is whether the ball joint is worn and loose. A quick test- when you extend the threaded shaft, does it stay in place or flop down (without the outer installed)? The FSM has a more exact method for testing if I recall correctly.

Finding new original Nissan inner tie rods is next to impossible. A company named Really Right Parts makes an aftermarket replacement. I have a set but have never installed so I can't comment on quality yet. Here is a link to a site that sells the part.

Right Inner Tie Rod

The right side is the only one available. So, if you ever need a left side, you use a right side outer tie rod. As long as the inner tie rod checks out in terms of wear, I would try to keep it.

Apologies if I have misunderstood your post.

 

[siteunseen]

I'd guess the aftermarket part as well.  I put Moogs on my '72 from rockauto.com.  They have the grease zerk with them.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/nissan,1971,240z,2.4l+l6,1209158,steering,tie+rod+end,7428

If you wanted to go all shade tree, wrap the threads with teflon tape. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by siteunseen

[z boy mn]

siteunseen, you do understand the situation correctly...

And, I can add that both the outer tie rod that was on the car (probably OEM) that I took off wiggles the same amount as the new one (definitely not OEM) when I put it on. So, that's why I was thinking maybe it's the inner tie rod that is somehow a different size. Maybe the inner tie rod was replaced at some point?

The good news is that the ball joint and the joint on the outer tie rod (both OEM and after-market) are fine.

One option is to just order a new inner tie rod and see.

Of course, I like the teflon tape idea as long as it's not dangerous.

[Captain Obvious]

The locknut "locks" everything into place when it's tightened, so I'm not sure I'd worry about it.

Unless the threads are so loose that you're worried you'll actually pull the outer tie rod off the inner, then that floppy thread should be immaterial. If the inner tie rod end is tight and doesn't have any play at the rack end, I'm thinking it doesn't matter and I wouldn't burn money just to replace that.

So it's a loose female thread spec. Maybe by accident, and maybe on purpose to save costs on the assembly line. But in application, since the threads are pulled into tension with the locknut, I don't think it really matters.

IMHO.

[z boy mn]

I see your point, Captain Obvious...the threads are definitely strong enough to pull it tight against the lock nut, so maybe that's enough. And, the lock-nut seems to fit/spin just fine so the threads on the inner tie rod are consistent. I just hate to have it wiggle (even slightly) when it's on the track and either wear out other components or come apart...I'm not a professional mechanic, but that seems like it would be bad! :-O

I'm thinking that maybe I can talk someone at ZCarDepot (which has both inner and out tie rods) into screwing a set together to see if there's any play. As my outer tie rods seem consistent, if there's no play in theirs I'd know it was the inner tie rod on my car...but if there is, might just be the way it fits together and I'll rely on that locknut. Hmmmm. Maybe I should add an extra lock nut! :-D

[Captain Obvious]

I'd hate to have that thing wiggle under use too. That would be bad. I believe however, that if the locknut is doing it's job, that shouldn't happen.

Good luck however you proceed! 

[z boy mn]

I just talked to one of the tech support people at ZCarDepot, and he suggested that if the locknut spun fine and the whole assembly tightened up like it should, the inner tie rod was probably fine. This is admirable, as I had my credit card handy in case I decided to order another one (they happen to be one of the only places to get them).  I'll need to get the car aligned again when I put it on the road, so I'll get a second opinion, but for now I'll assume it's safe.

Thanks again everyone!

[Captain Obvious]

1 hour ago, z boy mn said:

 I'll get a second opinion, but for now I'll assume it's safe.

Captain Obvious is compelled to point out that you already got two opinions.  Mine, and confirmation from the tech support from MSA.  

Seriously though, however you proceed is up to you. Personally, I hate sloppy threads.

[Chickenman]

Hang on a second. I've got alarm bells ringing in my head. I seem to recall that there was an early and a late style of Tire rod assembly. The early ones had a smaller diameter inner and outer Tie rod assembly. It was a running factory change beef up the steering components.  I have to check a couple of things....... 

[Captain Obvious]

Well that could be an issue!

IMHO that would fall into the category of "Unless the threads are so loose that you're worried you'll actually pull the outer tie rod off the inner". Let's not do that!

[Chickenman]

I could be completely wrong... memories getting old. Ball joints did have two different thread sizes. Early ones were smaller. 

It could be a manufacturing error as already mentioned. Offshore parts are infamous for poor quality control.  But steering rod thread fit should not be sloppy at all. Loose thread fit means less thread engagement and danger of fatener component. There is a heck of a lot of load on Tie Rod threads. You do not want them loose. The Jam nut is not for structural integrity. It is just to prevent the inner Tire Rod end from unscrewing.

If one side fits tightly and the other side is sloppy... then you have an issue. Period.

If you run Track days or Autocross, big hot sticky tires will load the steering linkage parts to the maximum. They must be 100% perfect.  I'm with Captain Obvious. Personally,  I would not accept this situation. Something is not right.  

Ever watch Mayday? The Airplane disaster show. One had a British Air  episode where the front windshield blew out while in flight. Captain was sucked half way out of the windshield opening., before Engineer grabbed his legs. Cause was a windshield replacement the night before. Mechanic mistakenly replaced the 9 mm bolts with 8mm bolts. They fit... but were " loose " . Fortunately the flight crew managed to land the plane safely despite a Catastrophic decompression at 14,000 ft. And even more amazing was that the Captain survived. But the outcome could have been tragic. Food for thought.

Bottom line. Fasteners of any kind are not meant to fit " sloppy". And certainly not in high stress areas such as steering linkage. Just my .02c... 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Chickenman