Carl Beck

Actually it is just about the same. Contributed by Chris Thorne, to the Z Car Home Page as well as here, in the hopes of gaining broader exposure to share his efforts. I could simply find it there easier, and thought it would be helpful to a new member to the Z Car community. Chris only dropped out one image, that contributed little to the process. But tried to clarify any vague phrases in the original discussion. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guys: I have to say that it's refreshing to see at least a few brave people, that refuse be silenced when poked by Politically Correct daggers. When we all wake up to the fact that social problems will only be addressed and solved - when what is honestly said, is more important than silence. Of course if you don't want it said at all, then throw the PC daggers at will. They are nicely packaged as high minded slogans, and thus conveniently thrown. No matter how you cut it - the disaster in New Orleans was a black eye on all of us. It is important to define the effects, but more so to get to the route causes. Proof that 50 years of "the Great Society" has been a very costly and huge failure for the American People. Proof that "we the people" have completely lost both control of, as well as any ability to hold our Government, at all levels, accountable for their actions. After he left office some 210 years ago, George Washington attempted to warn us that the downfall of our power to control our destiny as free and independent people, would begin when we started putting either geographic divisions or political party ahead of our unity as American's. While his Farewell Address is difficult to follow today, given the Old English style of writing - its meaning and its warnings to us are clear as a bell. - if only we would take the time to read it. <a href=http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/49.htm TARGET=NEW> See Farewell </a> The sad truth is that we have all been drinking the Kool-Aid from the mass media and the two Political Parties for far too long. The real question is; are we now too poisoned by it, to recover as "One Nation, with Liberty and Justice For All." or to reestablish a government of, by and for the people? Feel free to bicker among yourselves while Rome burns... Political Power is gained and wealth amassed if you can keep everyone else fighting over the bones you throw them. Like Michael More said; "isn't it wonderful that the wealthy have two Political Parties to take care of them". So suit up - put on that Red or Blue Party Jersey - and like the fanatic spectators at a World Class Soccer Game - feel free to bludgeon one another with a full head of "Team Spirit"... But for goodness sakes, realize that you aren't really a Team Member, nor really a Player... Just another stupid dupe that's been convinced to root for one Party Team or another, while they both make money off the game. At my age, I'll be checking out soon... but my heart is heavy at the future prospects for our grandchildren, although also encouraged when people wake up and start telling it like it is... hope springs eternal. FWIW, Carl B. Honorary Lt. Governor of the Great State of Ohio Intern To The United States Senator of the Great State of Alaska Block Leader for the "Neighbors For Nixon" Campaign Yes I was young, worn the Party Jersey and drank the Kool-Aid.... fool me once shame on you.. fool me twice, shame on me.

Hi Tim: I guess the question and response belong here... so same answer anyway.. <VBG> Nothing like jumping right in... If you have a plasma cutter, we'll have to guess that you are pretty good at welding... or are you just jumping right in there too<vbg>. There's a pretty good article on the <a href=http://ZHome.com TARGET=NEW>Z Car Home Page</a> - in the "Classic and Collectable Z's" Section. or use the direct URL: <a href=http://zhome.com/Classic/240ZFloorboards/ChrisFloorboards.htm TARGET=NEW> Replacing 240Z Floorboards</a> Good to see you join the group, I'm sure you'll not only have fun with the restoration project, but come away with a great appreciation for the Datun 240-Z. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Tim: Good to see you join the group, I'm sure you'll not only have fun with the restoration project, but come away with a great appreciation for the Datun 240-Z. I moved the answer about the floor pan replacement to the other thread you started.. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Mark (everyone) Thanks for checking on that. So far, the lowest engine serial number we've located that came in an A/T equipped Z, with the "Nissan OHC" valve cover, is in the 011600 range... with a production date of 08/70. One of the reason's we've tried to gather data related to A/T's and original engine serial numbers - is so that we can get at least an idea of how many L24's were received, that originally had the "2400" on them. The numbers aren't perfect, but it looks like something close to 9,000 Series I cars came to the USA with the "2400" valve covers. Given that people have been collecting them or saving them for many years now - it would seem that more of the "2400" valve covers are still around than the cars they originally came on. Not earth shaking, but just another fun item to collect... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Gary: You may have thought that because as Arne pointed out, the Z's equipped with the A/T didn't start production until 08 or 09 of 1970. Or you may have thought that because most of the Automotive Magazines here in the States didn't offer Road Tests of the A/T equipped Z's until later in calender year 71. With production in Aug. of 70 - they didn't arrive at the Dealerships here until around Oct. of 70. Because traditionally the coming calender years models, of the US manufacturers, were introduced here in the States in Oct. ... it's more than likely that most of the A/T equipped Series I cars were sold/titled as 1971 240-Z's. (they all meet the 71 Emissions and Safety Standards for the US because the standards didn't change 70 to 71). At the Dealership I bought my first Z from, and later worked at, we were quite surprised when Z's with the A/T started showing up at around Nov. 1970. While we knew the 240-Z was to be offered with the A/T, we were initially told that the plant that was to produce them, simply fell behind on their original delivery schedule. By late 70 the Dealership had long waiting lists, and many people took a 240-Z with the A/T even if they didn't want the A/T. With a few bolt in parts, it was easy enough to change out. The A/T was really a reduced size version of Ford's A/T. They were produced by a joint venture between Nissan, Toyo Kogyo and Ford in Japan. At the time it was a $190.00 extra cost item. We're not sure exactly how many 240-Z's came to the States with the A/T in the Series I cars, but according to Nissan's sales figures here in the States, about 12% of the 240-Z's from the Series II cars forward were sold with the A/T. That would be roughly 18,000 of them for the USA or 19,200 for all of North America. That's not quite equal to the combined sales of 240-Z's to the rest of the world at something around 21,500 units. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Mark: Thanks for checking that... I see the build date is 09... when you get a chance check the original engine serial number - it's on the data plate under the hood, as well as being stamped into the block. Carl B.

Hi Will: Sorry for the delay.. the Graham-Paige / Nissan Connection article is located at: <a href=http://zhome.com/History/GrahamPaige/GrahamPaige.htm TARGET=NEW> The Z Car Home Page</a> It is a large file comprised of 11 .jpg images, so it will take a while to load. I think you'll enjoy it. regards, Carl

From the pictures and your description it looks like you found a pretty nice Z. An Original Owner, 280Z, with say 50K miles or less, maintained in stock condition, garage kept, original shinny paint, perfect dash, good chrome etc etc - will sell for between $7,500.00 and $8,500.00 pretty quickly. Same car with 125K + miles will be in the $5K range. If you bought it for $5,000.00 and sold it for $8,500.00 - you'd spend $3,500.00 and two years looking for another one. Exceptionally clean, original First Generation Z's are getting to be very hard to find now. good luck, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Rick: As Alan has convinced me that the L16 and L24 were redesigns of the previous Nissan L series.... I'll have to up-date "b)" and "b)" above... to read: an over-head cam, 1600cc engine rated at 97HP and a 2.0L twin cam engine rated at 160HP (from Prince) FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Rick: Shape/position is correct. "L" as in L24 stands for the type of in-line six. An "L" series engine has both the intake and exhaust valves located to one side of center in the combustion chambers - forming a sort of in an inverted "L". This can be a Flat Head, Over-Head Valve or Over-Head Cam design. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Gee Will: I didn't realize that California mandated warnings for the old MaryJane.. I thought they were trying to eliminate the laws that made it unlawful. Anyway Victor - you shouldn't smoke that stuff and drive anyway.. DUI is a tough rap today.. just too funny.. "hey Dude, your ashtray just blew-up Man..Woohoo.." Never put your stash, with your lighter nor cash. Carl B.

Looking Great cdavid... still planning on the rear mounted A/C? How about filling us in on some of the other "up-grades" you have planned!! regards, Carl B.

Hi Will: The logic was not intended to infer that any of the technologies or truly "new" designs were invented in Japan, but rather to show who picked them up and applied them earliest. As well as to highlight the different approaches taken by Prince and Nissan toward the same end. (to produce and sell cars). There are several factors involved here. Might be interesting to look at a couple of them. I'd agree that both Nissan and Prince engineers brought technology that was broadly available to all of Japan to Nissan Motors Ltd. However I see quite different engineering talent, tools and techniques between the two at any point in time prior to their merger. While Nissan rebuilt after the war, starting in 1949 with its existing Truck Production facilities at Yokohama (which had not been bombed during the war) - and regaining many of it's previous production engineering and management staff (mnius Aikawa who had been imprisoned for War Crimes in China). Prince grew out of a completely different environment. For that matter so did Toyota. (Toyota Loom Corporation)... At any rate, this lead to Nissan focusing on rebuilding their Production and Manufacturing facilities and capabilities through the 50's and early 60's. So focused was Nissan's attention on Production and Manufacturing - they won the Deming Prize, one of Japan's highest awards, for Manufacturing for 1960. Product Design (styling) and product Engineering really started to get internal emphasis (rather than being out-sourced) within Nissan around 61/63 as far as I can see. As you said, when Nissan did restart the production of passenger cars - they licensed the design and product engineering from Austin. On the other hand Prince Motors was formed out of a spin off out of a huge conglomerate. By 1960 the Managing Director of Prince Motor Company was named Dr. Ryoichi Nakagawa and he was responsible for Prince's Engineering Policy as well. (During the war he had been the designer of the of the "Zero" fighter aircraft engine at the Nakajima Aircraft Company.) By 1961 Prince Skylines were running the East African Safari Rally! So you can see where their corporate focus was. So, while both Prince and Nissan brought significant engineering talent to the table - there was a large difference in the experience base and type of engineering expertises the two contributed. Needless to say that Nissan certainly out shinned Prince in terms of sound Strategic Planning and Financial Management... but it was Prince's engine and racing program that was continued within Nissan while their own program was dropped after the merger. At any rate - the whole thing is a fascinating story to follow.. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Will: No question that the automotive world was/is one of evolution, and sometimes revolution. If we trace the origins of almost anything automotive, back far enough we get back to the lever, the wheel and the screw. <vbg>. I also agree that much of the automotive worlds technologies were broadly available to the far younger "Japanese Automotive Industry". I think the point is - it was the smartest one's that grabbed the best ideas first and put them to use. Gisuke Aikawa at Nissan was one of the quickest, and the people at Prince were among the best, at recognizing and grabbing great technologies then blending them with Japanese cultural values and capabilities. Modular manufacturing was a very classic example. (there are several). I don't know about the interchangeability of parts between the Nissan Patrol's engine and Chevy; but the in-line six used in the Nissan 4WD vehicles of the early 50's was actually the Model 73 engine purchased by Nissan from Graham-Paige, April 20, 1936. They got the engine along with the Graham-Paige Crusader and all manufacturing machinery that produced it. The Graham-Paige Crusader was presented by Nissan as their Model 70 to Japanese buyers in 1937. The Model 73 engine with it's 225 cid and 85HP (then called the Nissan "A" engine) powered 35,000 Model 80 Trucks produced between 1937 and 1940. The engine drove over 3,000 Model 90 Buses as well during the same period. After the war, the same engine was introduced into Nissan's first 4WD vehicles in 51/52 - the 4W-60 and 4W-70. These vehicles were the forerunners to the Patrol. In 1955 Nissan hired American automotive engineer Donald P. Stone to increase the HP of the engine. The result was the Nissan NC engine. This "L" head design was rated at 105HP and was used for the following 4 years. Stone modified the design again in 1959 incorporating an Overhead Valve design. This and other modifications allowed the engine - now known as the "P" engine to be rated at 125HP. Interestingly even with the major design changes to the head, the basic Graham-Paige designed block, crankshaft and rods were continued. The "P" engine was used in Nissan trucks and bus lines through 1986. If you have an interest - I have a copy of Appendix B - of the Graham-Paige Story. It's titled "The Nissan Connection" and was compiled by Bill McCall and Michael E. Keller. I'll be glad to scan it for you. FWIW, Carl B.

Prince + Nissan - the Whole was greater than the sum of the parts.. Mr. Matsuo writes as he tells his story of the design progression and process: ... Autumn of 1967... "Mr. Katayama had requested the 2.4 liter L24 powerplant, while the Japanese market had exorbitant taxes on vehicles over 2,000cc. Nissan had just taken over the Prince concern, and were were told to use their two-liter S20 twin-cam unit. (this eventually became the famous Z432 model, incidentally.) " So if not by Design, then by Management Directive, the 240-Z became the Z432 with the first 2.0L engine specified for the Japanese market.... and thus the Z took on some major genes from Prince. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Bryan (everyone): There is no cutting of the transmission tunnel in the early cars - to install a 5spd. "IF": A. you find one of the Nissan Competition Shifters provided to put a Type B 5spd in an early car.(70/71) B. you bend your shifter to about the same profile as "A" above C. you put a Type "A" 5spd. in the car (with the Z bellhousing and tail shaft housing). FWIW, Carl

Project File: Like any major corporation, Nissan assigned Project File Numbers to most of their internal projects, primarily for accounting purposes. According to Brian Long, who spent quite a bit of time with Nissan's Historian in Japan, Mr. Hara, the Head of the Product Planning Department , assigned the project file name "Design Project Z" because "X" and "Y" had previously been assigned to earlier projects. As I understood it - Mr. Matsuo, the head of the Sports Car Styling Studio, had a department budget, and within that budget, he could spend his budget developing the various design/styling concepts he wanted. (with the overview of his Supervisor of course). Past "Styling Concepts" when a specific concept was approved for farther development, where significant funds would be expended on it - it got its own Project Number assigned by Mr. Hara and of course the funding required to proceed.. In his book, as Mr. Matsuo outlines his story of how the Z Car was designed and developed, he tell us that once Mr. Katayama selected Mr. Matsuo's "Plan A" Styling from among the alternatives presented at the end of 1967, - the Project finally started to move forward past Concept and Styling.. and Engineering was called in.. the Project got the "Z" application at that point and it just stuck with the car. Mr. Hara was the Director in charge of both the Styling Studio's and the Design Engineering Departments... So projects involving cross department funding were assigned Project Numbers by him. So I believe that the answer to your original question - what does Z stand for ?- would be it stood for the Project File Number for "Design Project Z". As far as the meaning of the letter "Z" to the Japanese... there seems to be several stories. FWIW, Carl B.

Check with a couple other Sign Companies... "Signs Now" here in Clearwater charged me $28.00 each for two static cling, vinyl signs - 24x24"... of the IZCC's three color Logo... actually it was Red and Blue ink on a white vinyl.... As I recall they charged me about $30.00 to take my .jpg image, convert it and blow it up to print. I wanted static cling, so I could easily install/remove them from the front fenders of the Z.. I would think that regular vinyl decals would cost less.. I'd keep checking with other sign companies... FWIW, Carl B.

There is nothing on the car that would indicate that it was an A/T - and I don't see any reason to keep the A/T in the car if you don't want it. I would go with the 5spd... instead of the 4 if I had a choice. The only reason to keep it an A/T that I can think of - would be if you had the original window sticker, bill of sale etc. that shows it as an A/T and you want to have the car match the paperwork for Show Purposes... But if you bought it to drive and enjoy - enjoy it the way you want it. 2400 valve cover - darn... there's a hole in that hypothesis... all the other one's reported the non-2400 valve covers.. thanks, Carl

Hi Mark: two questions - 1. Could you tell us the original engine serial number 2. Does it have the later valve cover - ie the one without the 2400 on it. We think that they introduced the later style valve covers with the introduction of the A/T The lowest VIN we have found so far that was an A/T is 08947. There seems to be a close grouping of A/T's at the beginning - 8958, 9062, 9290, 9591, and now 9603 were all A/T's and we haven't found any standard shift cars between them... Past that initial point - the A/T's seem to be spread out with lots of standard's between them. Looks like you picked up a very nice car.. I would also agree with the market value range stated. good luck... Carl B.

Sanity Check? The original rear deck lid glass was "clear" with no "defroster lines". - Right? Clear meaning no tint ?? If the objective is to keep the car faithful to "original" - then you need a clear glass with no defroster lines. Keep in eye on E-Bay, visit other Z Car sites and post "Wanted Ad.'s" etc etc - then pay what you have too. If you get a rear glass with defroster lines - then remove them.... aren't you still looking at "tinted glass" instead of clear? That buys you nothing in term of keeping "original"... If you are going to tint it anyway - it won't be faithful to "original" anyway... right? So what's the issue? Get a new rear glass - it will be tinted with defroster lines - then add window tinting film as dark as the lines... Hook up the Defroster - per the Factory TSB... and you'll have a car as delivered from a dealer - that might have preformed the job... now is that "original" or not? I don't know if following the Factory TSB's where modifications are directed - is considered "original" or not?? how it would be judged?? - But then you don't care about that anyway if your going to add tinting film. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hummmmm....... 1) You specifically ask about increased Horse Power 2) L28 with S.U.'s etc 3) exhaust done... 4) headers... 5) street cam 6) mentions that it may need rebuilt carb's.... $500.00 ........ ...... OK: Make an appointment to take the car to Atlanta.... get with a known good Z Shop ... Pay them to do a complete assessment and give you an ordered list of items that need to be addressed. They should have a chassis dyno - or at least have common access to one. For $500.00: a) you'll have a good baseline established for that engine - measured rear wheel HP at start - compression check - leak down test - fuel/air ratios at specific RPM levels - everything as far as "tune up items" checked for performance to spec. - engine timing curve documented (pull the distributor and measure/record it) - etc. etc. etc. now you'll know what to buy - or what to do to gain HP - in what order. Ask them to write it down for you. c) it might save you thousands of dollars that might have been spent on needless, useless "junk".. The alternative is to buy more needless or useless junk, and keep adding it at random in the hopes that something will work a miracle... That would be my best advice... good luck, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

If you have enough fuel pressure to fill the float bowls and keep them full while feeding the engine at 6.5K RPM - then I would think you have enough fuel pressure to get them there to begin with. Sudden acceleration/deceleration is one reason they are there to begin with. If you floored it - and it took off at once.. ..but later started bogging down.. then maybe you would have a fuel supply problem. The fact that you can get to 6.5K slowly and smoothly - might indicate that you have a problem with the damper fluid your using. If you floor it - and the vacuum slides respond too quickly - you'll be running too rich at that instant based on the vacuum demand from the engine... and we all know that a mixture that is too rich, not only costs you power, but money. I'd change the oil in the dampers first - observe how thick/thin it is now -then go just a bit thicker. If your not sure - try using 20wt. first as a base line. The second place to look, is the engine timing. Check the vacuum advance and check for vacuum leaks. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Kats: Most of the Dealers I knew at the time never were ask to replace the clear glass with the tinted glass and rear defroster. Keep in mind that by the time the 240-Z's started arriving at the dealerships, Nissan Motor In U.S.A. had close to 900 Authorized Datsun Dealers. They tried to get at least a couple cars out to every dealer.... so only a couple of 240-Z's with clear glass would have been delivered to any one dealer at the time. If any of them did remove and replace the clear hatch glass, they most likely threw the originals in the trash. The Dealers put aluminum wheels on almost every 240-Z before they sold them. That added additional profit to the car for them. At $3526.00 MSRP the dealers only had about $500.00 in profit to begin with. They paid on average about $20.00 for aluminum wheels then - and listed them at retail to the customers at $450.00.... thus adding $370.00 profit to the sale ! That was almost as much as they made selling the car. Body Side Protective Molding was also a very common extra cost equipment item added by the Dealers to most 240-Z's here. That cost them about $45.00 per car and they listed it for between $125.00 and $175.00. The original "take-off" steel wheels and hubcaps were first sent to the Part Department for storage. At first this was only a few cars, but as the supply of 240-Z's started coming on stronger.. original wheels and hub caps started piling up in the Dealers Parts Departments... and then when they took up too much room and there were no buyers for them - the Dealers simply threw the excess stock in the trash. In the Northern States, the Dealers were able to sell some of the stock steel wheels to customers that wanted/needed to mount winter tires. But that wasn't too many. No one wanted to buy those ugly hubcaps... not after they had seen a 240-Z with aluminum road wheels. Some customers did request that their hub caps be put in the cars prior to delivery - but the truth is most customers never even saw the original hub caps. By the time the Dealer was ready to deliver the car, they had already been removed and replaced the extra cost aluminum wheels. As late as 1985 several Dealers still had some in their warehouse as they had retained a few... but as time passed and more room was needed for newer parts that were being sold - the last of the OEM Take-Off's were also thrown in the Trash. This is a normal way of doing business - obsolete and non-selling parts get throw out, because the cost of shelf space to store them, exceeds their value. There isn't much demand for rear hatch glass here in the US - it doesn't seem to get broken very often. For a long time, if an owner had a broken rear hatch glass - they just went to the local junk yard and bought the entire rear deck lid The only people here in the States that want the clear hatch glass with no defroster wires - are people restoring the very early cars (prior to #1456) - and there aren't really that many of them, that don't have their original glass. On the US Spec. DATSUN 240-Z's after #1456 the tinted glass with the rear window defroster was standard equipment - so the customers had no option. Of course the tinted glass was a very useful standard equipment item because the hatch back design leads to a lot of heat in the car from the Sun. To keep the cars cooler, the after-market suppliers came up with the first rear window shade kits. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com