Butthurt Emissions delete....

[dar5052]

This may be a contentious topic but in searching for ways to clean up my engine bay, everyone seems to harp on reading the FSM instead of actually giving beneficial feedback on the subject? I understand the importance of EGR, etc, and its functionality but it seems to be clouded by a automatic response of "its there for a reason". The only reason its there is for emission purposes.. I am an engineer that works in the oil and gas industry and completely understand the process because we do the same thing... for emission purposes. 

People build cars for various applications, some are purists, others are restomods, and some are somewhere in between (myself included). its easy to jump and say "read the FSM" but why not give real world experience and respect other peoples builds regardless of what you think is correct?

[siteunseen]

What's your point?

I deleted mine without any problems just a lot of reading. It was all common sense but for you, an engineer, it should be much easier.

 

[dutchzcarguy]

2 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

What's your point?

Thats what i thought!  i can't see any problem in your last topic about your 280z.. we let you do your thing.. helped where we could..

[Reptoid Overlords]

I couldn't find where EGR was discussed in the new to me 280z thread.  Was it on another forum? Nice car by the way.  Deleting the EGR  and catalytic converter from my '80ZX were one of the 1st things I did to it.   Were you wanting to know what equipment and lines to delete?  Or just whether or not the deleting it can have a negative impact?   I don't really think it has any adverse effects.

[Zed Head]

I don't see any posts about EGR on your car on this forum either.  Maybe you're getting your forums mixed up?  As far as the FSM goes, these early FSM's are like school textbooks.  Much more educational than today's FSM's. 

I have to say it, even though it won't make you feel better - the title of the thread is mirronic.  I just now made that word up, because "ironic" is used incorrectly so often.

Anyway, don't get caught up in anybody's comments, if you think they're negative.  There's plenty of positive here to destroy the negativity.

[dutchzcarguy]

8 hours ago, Zed Head said:

mirronic

I do get a translation out of it!  "spiegelbeeldig" i guess it's like  mirror-image-like  translated back to english.. haha 🙂 

btw i had a look at dar5052 profile.. has not been on here since he posted the first post in this thread..  saw he's an apprentice.. yeah He has a lot to learn hihi 😉 

As a service engineer in all kind of alarmsystems/electronics  we often had apprentices/learners on the job..

We always sayd, yes, we have them there but they are to no use to you!!  Hahaha.. oh well they have to learn it to..

One anecdote!  Once we had a smart one.. 🙈 he was making an electrical wiring on a stone wall (Lots of drilling holes for studs/fasteners) but then, further along, the wall turned into a steel wall and.. he just continued with the concrete drill in the steel wall.. you can not believe how much noise that makes!  😂

Edited December 6, 2021 by dutchzcarguy

[Barefootdan]

I too removed nearly all of the emissions and "extra" items on my 280. EGR, Cold Start Valve, BCCD, Carbon Canister, PCV system (filters instead), AAR, and also the water temp sensor. I have alot of extra wiring now, but I planned on redoing my harness soon so I just tied them out of the way. I found a good thread on hybridz that listed the majority of the items:

Carbon Canister (surrounding area will smell like gas after you shut it down hot, gas fumes in the engine compartment). No performance benefit.

EGR Vacuum line - this will shut off the EGR permanently. You can also remove the EGR entirely, but you must make a block-off plate. No performance benefit.

Injector cooling fan - you probably did this already. No performance benefit.

TPS - throttle position switch. May cause idling or WOT issues.

AAR - you will have a slow idle when cold, may stall out. No performance benefit.

Idle speed adjustment - see above. No performance benefit.

PCV system - underhood will smell like blowby if you have any. No performance benefit.

BCDD lines - actually removing unit may require taking manifold off and making block off plate, not sure. No performance benefit.

Ported vacuum system, including TVV and all lines. Move distributor line to manifold vacuum. Adjust base timing accordingly, remove 12V advance if desired. No real performance benefit.

Coolant lines that run to the AAR and throttle body.

Cold Start Valve - May cause extremely cold starting problems. No performance benefit.

I do recall reading that the stock Z efi system is designed to be used with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. A drop in vacuum (open throttle) adds more fuel pressure (more fuel) and Higher vaccum (closed throttle) reduces fuel pressure (less fuel). But I am swapping to a new fuel rail with a new regulator so I am not worried. 

 

During my research, I also got the vibe that it was sacrilegious to remove anything the Datsun engineers installed. Even if I sell a Z part locally and take to the buyer, 50% of the time they ask me why I removed what I did. But it didn't stop me, nor should it stop you if thats what you want to do to your car. If we all followed the FSM, none of our builds would be interesting 🙂 
But take what I did with a grain of salt as my Z has only been around the block twice 😄 
 

[Zed Head]

I think that many people just get offended by the lack of effort some people put out to understand how things work before removing them.  And the fact that in many cases the car will stink more and run worse afterward.  For example, the BCDD's purpose is to let air in to the intake system so that the fuel from the injectors can properly burn.  Without the BCDD the injectors still squirt some fuel even with the throttle blade shut that passes through and out the tail pipe, creating the "old car stink" that anybody who's been behind one hates.  Removes the cats - mores stink.  Remove the EGR - you're contributing to smog.  Remove the AAR - you'll have to hold your foot on the throttle pedal or blip the engine until it's warm enough to keep running on its own.

So the engineering types who work in fields that actually created these amazing technological conveniences can get a bit offended.  

To anyone who does plan to remove these things, just take a little time and try to understand what they do and why they are there, instead of posting about removing "emissions crap".  It only takes a little bit of time and gives you the ammo to say that you've considered it and made your decision.

[Barefootdan]

@Zed Headhas a great point. Don't just pull off anything you don't like...which is how my first post may have sounded. I know I am going to run aftermarket EFI in the near future (and alot of my items were non functional) so it was something I was okay with for the short term, rather than spending time and money on a temporary use. There are many things in place that on their own don't seem like they do much, but all together add up to a much greater impact. 

[dar5052]

Well that got a lot of attention... I guess my point was that it seems when You ask a question on the forums related to removing anything from the emissions system, there is a lot of pushback from the community on what not to do instead of how to do it. Sorry that I've offended so many people. 

@dutchzcarguy you are correct in your observation to an extent... I've posted multiple threads on my post and contributed to one or two others... but I recently joined... maybe you can cut me some slack on my lack of posting on topics... 

Perhaps it was my mistake for not asking the question on EGR directly... I used the search function and the results I got back are what I was reporting in the thread... I guess you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't for using the search function... lord knows if I would have asked the question I would have been bombarded with "use the search function, its been discussed a million times" 

@Barefootdan thank you for your genuine post. 

@siteunseennice looking setup... thanks for rubbing it in my face that as an engineer I should be wiser... Well done my friend. I thought forums were for discussion, not for demoralizing people. 

I guess this forum is like many others and I am not welcome here for sharing my observations, thoughts, or projects. Noted and thank you... 

[psdenno]

30 minutes ago, dar5052 said:

 

@siteunseennice looking setup... thanks for rubbing it in my face that as an engineer I should be wiser... Well done my friend. I thought forums were for discussion, not for demoralizing people. 

I guess this forum is like many others and I am not welcome here for sharing my observations, thoughts, or projects. Noted and thank you... 

Attitude.  Read @sightunseen's post again.  Looks like he was encouraging, not demoralizing.  One of us clearly misunderstands his comment.

Edited December 7, 2021 by psdenno

[Captain Obvious]

Agreed. I can pretty much guarantee that site wasn't trying to demoralize anybody. Not that kind of guy. Here's my take on what site said:

"I don't understand your point with the above. If you want to delete your EGR, then go ahead. It's not that difficult.

Heck... With enough reading, even I was able to figure out how to do it. And you, being an engineer, are probably much more capable than I am."

That's my read.