BoldUlysses

Hood Alignment Issues

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    Hi all.  I'm hoping you guys can help save me a trip back to the bodyshop for this.

    So I'm reassembling a 240Z with a restored body.  During the painting process, the body guys installed and aligned the hood with the fenders and cowl BUT without the torsion springs in place.

    Now that I've got the torsion springs back in, they preload the front of the hood and pop it 3/8" or so above the line of the fenders.  See attached image.

    Front-to-back and side-to-side alignment are perfect.

    The hinges are slid as far down as they can go using the 3 bolts.  And the fenders and headlight buckets are pulled up as far as they can go in their bolt slots.

    Is there anything else I can do to adjust?

    Thanks for any and all help!

    0.jpg

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    Try loosening the hinges, push the hood down, and re-tighten. It worked for me. Good luck.

    Cheers, Mike

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    Sometimes there is slop in hinge itself from age and wear, if what Pop's advises doesn't work you'll have to take the hood off, hinges off and grind or drill the 6 mounting holes larger.  The cutting should be the top area of each hole so when tightened the hinges sit lower, that should take up the slack.  But try the pushing down on the hood with loosened bolts first. 

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    4th that. Barely loosen the nuts and push down until it sits right. Carefully raise the hood and tighten them back down. Don't raise it all the way, just enough to get to the nuts. All the way up seems to "kick it out" a little on my cars when replacing the hood.

    Mine a outlined now with a scribe scratch although the hood will never be off again hopefully. 😁

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    Thanks folks.  I tried the technique and the passenger side is now aligned perfectly, but the driver's side is still 1/4" or so up.  Bugs the fire out of me.  I even tried gently sitting on the corner of the hood while reaching under to tighten the bolts (the grille and bumper haven't been installed yet, which helps access).

    Will keep trying.  I really don't want to have to enlarge the slots in the driver's side bracket, especially now that I've got the passenger side locked down.  Ugh.

    Thanks again.

    Edited by BoldUlysses
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    I experienced the same problem.  My hood lined up perfectly until it was removed and reinstalled.  So I doubt in my case there are any problems with the hinges.  Here is how I was able to change mine from "sloppy" to "not bad".

    Loosen the hinges.
    With both hands and on each side, press on the hood.  Be careful to only do this directly over the hinges where the hinge brackets are welded.  You are dealing with thin sheet metal. Then while you are pressing, ask someone else tighten the hinge bolts.

    Don't be afraid to allow the hood to go lower than the fenders.  After it is tightened up, it will still come up a little.

    Another tip: Both me and my attendant had a bud lite before starting this.  It gave us both a little more patience than we normally would have.  :)

     

     

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    I worked on it some more earlier.  When I press down on the corner of the hood (over the hinge, natch), it will drop 1/4" or so below the level of the headlight bucket edge.  I tighten the front two bolts (can't reach the rear one) while pressing down, and the hood edge still pops back up 1/4" above where it's supposed to be... 

    It's better than it was, but still not quite there.  I'm going to circle back around to it though; I don't want to waste half a day messing with the hinge when I need to keep up reassembly momentum with the rest of the car.

    Thanks again for all the great input.  Will let you know if I get it resolved.

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    I wonder if the problem here is that the downward force you've applied to the hood has generated not just displacement of the hinge plate but also a slight 'wind-up' (rotational displacement) of the hood torsion bars.  After you tighten down the hinge bolts, the torsion rods unwind and the hood edge pops up again.  Just a theory.  Someone with more panel installation experience can either verify or offer a more accurate explanation -- along with (hopefully) a remedy.

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    15 hours ago, BoldUlysses said:

    I worked on it some more earlier.  When I press down on the corner of the hood (over the hinge, natch), it will drop 1/4" or so below the level of the headlight bucket edge.  I tighten the front two bolts (can't reach the rear one) while pressing down, and the hood edge still pops back up 1/4" above where it's supposed to be... 

    It's better than it was, but still not quite there.  I'm going to circle back around to it though; I don't want to waste half a day messing with the hinge when I need to keep up reassembly momentum with the rest of the car.

    Thanks again for all the great input.  Will let you know if I get it resolved.

    I went thru the same problem after my resto.  Barring worn hinges as a root cause, keep trying the push-down procedure as you have been doing.  I do recommend you pull the grill (only five screws) to be able to get to all the mounting bolts easily from the front as you or a buddy apply pressure to the leading edge of the hood.  I kept the torsion rods in place when doing mine.

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    I had similar problems with mine due to worn hinges. Replacing the bad hinge helped, but it still had alignment problems. In the end, I just took out the torsion rods (guess that's why the PO had removed them). That might not be an option for you, but it worked for me.

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    On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 8:22 PM, BoldUlysses said:

    Thanks folks.  I tried the technique and the passenger side is now aligned perfectly, but the driver's side is still 1/4" or so up.  Bugs the fire out of me.  I even tried gently sitting on the corner of the hood while reaching under to tighten the bolts (the grille and bumper haven't been installed yet, which helps access).

    Will keep trying.  I really don't want to have to enlarge the slots in the driver's side bracket, especially now that I've got the passenger side locked down.  Ugh.

    Thanks again.

    The exact same symptoms and results I experienced.

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    I have the same problem, found the problem to be in worn hinges ( pivot points ). I have send them away for rebuild to a guy in the states. Will post results in my topic when they are back on the car. Hope it works.

    If you have to push down on the hood you are allready confirming the problem to be in the hinges.

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    Try this: It will require a helper. Loosen the four hood bolts to snug - you don't want the hood to drop or move by itself but you want to be able to force movement. With the hood up and the bolts loosened - using both hands, one on the front edge of the hood and the other towards the back of the hood (one hand down, one hand up on the side of the hood each man (or woman)) - push the front of the hood back and the rear of the hood forward as much as it will go. So, down hand aft, upper hand forward. The bolts should have been loose enough that the bottom bolts will move as far as they can towards the rear of the car and the top bolts will move as far as they can towards the front of the car. 

    You don't want them to move up or down, that would spoil your hood-to-cowl fitment. May help, but if it doesn't you'll have to repair, modify, or replace the hinge as suggested above. This is a simple and quick thing to try to get the nose of the hood down. It has worked for me on several of the Z's we've had in the shop. Some just had to much wear in the hinges to be able to get the hood to stay where it belonged.

    If the hood sits properly when the torsion rods are out and pushes up when the torsion rods are in place, the hinges are too worn.

    Please keep in mind that these cars were built in a different era and fitment back then was nothing like the sheet metal fitment of modern vehicles. When we were putting Z cars back together after paint we usually tried to get fitment that was as "visually pleasing" as possible, not perfect alignment of all the parts and seams... (The factory certainly did not take the time to shim and correct body panels for perfect alignment.) 

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    2 hours ago, bartsscooterservice said:

    I have the same problem, found the problem to be in worn hinges ( pivot points ). I have send them away for rebuild to a guy in the states. Will post results in my topic when they are back on the car. Hope it works.

    If you have to push down on the hood you are allready confirming the problem to be in the hinges.

    Bart........Curious where you sent your hinges to be rebuilt? Any info would be appreciated.

    Thanks

    Guy

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    I can appreciate everyone's point that the hinges may be worn.   The reason I am skeptical in my case and possibly BoldU's  case is that the hood closed properly before it was removed.  I would think if the hinges are worn, it would not have closed previously. Anyone disagree?

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    1 hour ago, 87mj said:

    I can appreciate everyone's point that the hinges may be worn.   The reason I am skeptical in my case and possibly BoldU's  case is that the hood closed properly before it was removed.  I would think if the hinges are worn, it would not have closed previously. Anyone disagree?

    Then perhaps the fenders/sugar scoops were sitting higher?

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    1 hour ago, grannyknot said:

    Then perhaps the fenders/sugar scoops were sitting higher?

    I hoped that was the case but there is no adjustment to the front of fender.  This is the right front.  Either it is bolted to the subframe or it isn't.   Also, the long horizontal stamping just above it prevents the fender from moving up and down.  (Ignore the hood height in this pic. It isn't closed or latched. btw).

    Fender.jpg

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    There is a small amount of adjustment in most of the front end pieces because of the size of the holes in the panels. May not be enough. Is your grill removed?

    I would loosen the hood bolts and the hinge bolts and try pushing the hood down and retightening it again. If it fit before, it should fit now. You can also look at the way the hinges shift when pushed down. Then you could adjust them more in that direction with the hood up. The hood may be stopping against the fender before you get the hinge where it needs to be.

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    Thanks again for all the input.  As far as I remember, the hood lined up before it was removed for the body resto.  At the very least, it didn't stand out to me that it was misaligned, and I notice that kind of stuff...

    The grille and bumper have been removed for better hinge bolt access.  I'm not going to remove the torsion bars b/c they preload the hinges and will help keep it from clunking around on the road.

    As mentioned previously, I'd like to keep up momentum with the project, so I'm working on the rest of the stuff forward of the firewall right now and I'll circle back to the hood in a bit.  I just don't want to stall out on it for 2-3 days.

    Edited by BoldUlysses
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    On 12/30/2019 at 1:54 PM, Patcon said:

    Post up when they get back. It will be interesting to see the finished result

    @Diseazd

    Looks like it might be an hour or so from you

    They are on the way back now, cost me 500 euro incl shipping, then again i will most likely be taxed again by our greedy goverment , so i think a total of 570 or so.

    Hope it was worth it..

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    They are on the way back now, cost me 500 euro incl shipping, then again i will most likely be taxed again by our greedy goverment , so i think a total of 570 or so.
    Hope it was worth it..


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