zKars

240Z Hazard switch differences

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    Today there is a request for hazard switches in the classified forums which leads me to go to the stash and see what I have to help.

    Pawing through the group, I see plenty of differences. Of course this brings up more questions.

    We know about the change to the back lit, round pull knob style switch on the North American 240's in 73, and the shorter wires on the 72 switch (6 pin connector wires), but I was surprised by a couple of differences I didn't know about. The marking on the handles vary, and most surprisingly, as does the angle of the switch's bat style handle from one to the next in either position.

    IMG_3815.JPG

    All of these are the long lead variety, but there are at least three different marking styles. We likely discussed this before. I suspect the center is oldest, (one triangle), the right second oldest, and third, newest. All of the short lead switches I have share the markings of the switch on the left. All fancy and most clearly marked, must make things "better" don't we? 

    But what surprised me the most was the difference in handle angles in the off and on positions, comparing across all three switches.

    The first pic has them all in the "ON" position, the second "OFF"

    IMG_3817.JPG

    IMG_3818.JPG

    Well the handles are simply bent you say from repeated use you'd likely say. I say NOT.

    Look at the thickness of the metal of the handle. It is both thick and oriented so that its rectangular cross section has the most bend resistant width in line with direction of motion. NO WAY you could bend that metal without doing damage to the switch mechanism. All switches click nicely into both on and off positions. Nothing wonky or loose inside. 

    Let the speculation begin!

    Edited by zKars
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    There is a special service tool for the chrome mounting nut.  See the two holes in the face?  The tool in the bottom left corner is a knurled tube with two pins on the end.  It fits over the handle and turns the chrome face nut.

    ServiceTools147.jpg

    Edited by 26th-Z
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    Fascinating. Of course there would be a special tool for that. Beats using an awl or an open needle nose plier. Hate to have it slip and scratch the chrome.

    Given the crazy angles of these handles it's difficult to imagine that tool fitting over them. Is the cylinder of the tool open on one side?

    Any theories on the variable angle of the handles? I just want to believe they have been bent in use, but the construction makes it difficult to understand how. I've had several apart to clean the contacts but never paid any attention to the handle mechanism.

    Edited by zKars

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    Hi zKars , great great article!! I didn’t know the difference. Thank you so much!!

    18 hours ago, zKars said:

    Given the crazy angles of these handles it's difficult to imagine that tool fitting over them. Is the cylinder of the tool open on one side?

    This is what exactly I experienced in my blue 240Z , this car has a switch which I determine “ early one “by its  the twin-triangle mark . And it could not accept the tool to turn the chrome nut because of its angle. I didn’t know why , but you showed us there is the one which can’t accept the tool . I tend to think the early one is always acceptable for the tool , later one is always not acceptable for the tool , but this theory is not true . 
     

    My blue 240Z has got the switch from another car when it became out of service , so it could be way out of date of the car’s manufacture date (03/70) . 
     

    On the other hand , my orange 12/71 240Z has the tool acceptable type switch which has a small  triangle in a big triangle. 
    This mark is later type I think .

    FYI , I show a comparison of a small box and a big box type . Japanese S30 uses the small box type . Maybe for euro too ? 

    I am learning every day !

    Kats

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    Edited by kats
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    Thanks Chris, I made a video using the tool from you ! The tool works perfect to turn the chrome face nut . 

    Gavin , I will give you this switch “ test mule “ if you need .


    FYI , here is the picture from the very late mock up styling study model , you see the switch has a twin triangles mark .

    Kats

    3C0F4050-F59F-41E9-8465-92F6345FA4A6.jpeg

    Edited by kats

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    My 12/70 car has the small triangle inside the larger triangle switch (switch on the right in zKars first picture).

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    On 12/8/2019 at 4:50 PM, zKars said:

    NO WAY you could bend that metal without doing damage to the switch mechanism.

    The first few times i used my early '71 240z I flattened the switch several times with my knees!  Then the brake lights stayed out..(US type switch with the 9 contacts!) the switch was broken inside..  Now i'm still driving the car almost 20 years with a frozen switch in off position, some glue keeps it together hahaha… and it's handle is flat with the dash.. i have to put my right knee somewhere haha 😀

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    Hazard Switch Clarification;

    70- 72 240z's in the USA had one of the following three hazard switches;

    0. All wiring is identical with the exception of harness length ( "short harness" or "long harness").

    1. Series ONE 240z; 70- 1.71 (The knob on the left that says "FLASH") with a short harness.

    2. '71 240z 2.71- 9.71 ( The same knob as above  with a long harness).

    3. '72 240z 10.71- 9.72 ( The knob with the 2 triangles and no writing and a long harness).

    Dates are approximate.

    That single triangle knob is an illusion, if I look closely I can see the indentation of another triangle which needs to be cleaned or painted.

    All switches will interchange and function in 70- 72 240z's, the differences are mainly cosmetic.

     

    Shameless plug; Hey Jim if you are selling, I am buying!

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    58 minutes ago, dhp123166 said:

    Hazard Switch Clarification;

    70- 72 240z's in the USA had one of the following three hazard switches;

    0. All wiring is identical with the exception of harness length ( "short harness" or "long harness").

    1. Series ONE 240z; 70- 1.71 (The knob on the left that says "FLASH") with a short harness.

    2. '71 240z 2.71- 9.71 ( The same knob as above  with a long harness).

    3. '72 240z 10.71- 9.72 ( The knob with the 2 triangles and no writing and a long harness).

    Dates are approximate.

    That single triangle knob is an illusion, if I look closely I can see the indentation of another triangle which needs to be cleaned or painted.

    All switches will interchange and function in 70- 72 240z's, the differences are mainly cosmetic.

     

    Shameless plug; Hey Jim if you are selling, I am buying!

    I have to disagree with your post regarding the Series 1 version.  I am the original owner of my car and the switch with the twin triangles on the handle is original to the car.  You'll note that member @w3wilkes indicates his 12/70 car has the same version of the switch and handle.

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    3 hours ago, dhp123166 said:

    Hazard Switch Clarification;

    70- 72 240z's in the USA had one of the following three hazard switches;

    0. All wiring is identical with the exception of harness length ( "short harness" or "long harness").

    1. Series ONE 240z; 70- 1.71 (The knob on the left that says "FLASH") with a short harness.

    2. '71 240z 2.71- 9.71 ( The same knob as above  with a long harness).

    3. '72 240z 10.71- 9.72 ( The knob with the 2 triangles and no writing and a long harness).

    Dates are approximate.

    That single triangle knob is an illusion, if I look closely I can see the indentation of another triangle which needs to be cleaned or painted.

    All switches will interchange and function in 70- 72 240z's, the differences are mainly cosmetic.

     

    Shameless plug; Hey Jim if you are selling, I am buying!

    Dang fooled again! should have looked more closely at that single triangle. Thoughts of uber rare big money switches blinded me.

    PM me, we will chat switch sales.

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    Undiluted dish washing soap and a toothbrush will clean embossed areas and also clean knurled plastic knobs nicely.  The bathroom sink is a great location for this....

    Remember to not use your toothbrush!

    image.png

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    1 hour ago, 240260280 said:

    Remember to not use your toothbrush!

    No tooth brushes get thrown away in my house, not until they have spent a couple yrs in my shop, Pledge furniture polish cleans the muck off the white paint well and leaves a shine.

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    14 hours ago, jfa.series1 said:

    I have to disagree with your post regarding the Series 1 version.  I am the original owner of my car and the switch with the twin triangles on the handle is original to the car.  You'll note that member @w3wilkes indicates his 12/70 car has the same version of the switch and handle.

    I stand on my original designations, I have pulled enough of these switches to back it up with anecdotal support.

    Just because the switch is in the car, it does not mean it has not been changed at some point.

    And...there is also that Datsun idiosyncrasie installing on vehicles items that should not be there; switches from other production runs, interior plastics etc...

     

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    1 hour ago, dhp123166 said:

    I stand on my original designations, I have pulled enough of these switches to back it up with anecdotal support.

    Just because the switch is in the car, it does not mean it has not been changed at some point.

    And...there is also that Datsun idiosyncrasie installing on vehicles items that should not be there; switches from other production runs, interior plastics etc...

     

    I'm with @jfa.series1, my 7/70 car #6521 has the double triangle switch. I have owned it since 1978, it has the original dash with no cracks and all of the switches and gauges appear to be original and are in good working order. The interior had been very well kept by the original owner, I see no evidence that anything was changed.

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    4 hours ago, CanTechZ said:

    I'm with @jfa.series1, my 7/70 car #6521 has the double triangle switch. I have owned it since 1978, it has the original dash with no cracks and all of the switches and gauges appear to be original and are in good working order. The interior had been very well kept by the original owner, I see no evidence that anything was changed.

    "Appear to be original"- How can you be sure? Your switch is original Datsun no matter what iteration is on your car, there were no aftermarket manufacturer for these.

    "I see no evidence that anything was changed"- You would not see any evidence as a swap is a direct bolt in.

    1, 2, or 3 supposed occurrences do not a statistic make.

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    1 hour ago, dhp123166 said:

    "Appear to be original"- How can you be sure? Your switch is original Datsun no matter what iteration is on your car, there were no aftermarket manufacturer for these.

    "I see no evidence that anything was changed"- You would not see any evidence as a swap is a direct bolt in.

    1, 2, or 3 supposed occurrences do not a statistic make.

    The likelihood that the hazard switch was changed in the first 7 years of the car is very low, and JFA is the one and only owner of his car. I suspect the switches are original to these cars

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    No, I can't be 100% sure but the same can be said for "anecdotal support". With @jfa.series1being an original owner I would say there is very strong evidence showing that some series one cars came with the double triangle switch.

    Respectfully, Mike 

    Edited by CanTechZ
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    17 hours ago, Patcon said:

    The likelihood that the hazard switch was changed in the first 7 years of the car is very low, and JFA is the one and only owner of his car. I suspect the switches are original to these cars

    " I suspect" = opinion.

     

    17 hours ago, CanTechZ said:

    No, I can't be 100% sure but the same can be said for "anecdotal support". With @jfa.series1being an original owner I would say there is very strong evidence showing that some series one cars came with the double triangle switch.

    Respectfully, Mike 

    "Anecdotal support" = more exact than opinion based on one or two exceptions to the rule. 

    Enough proof based on actual removal of said switches on enough vehicles to postulate a correct theorem as to what goes with what.

    Scientific method stuff...

    Also, I have sold enough of these switches with the parameters I put forth and not one buyer has come back and stated " That is not the one which is on my vehicle."

    Curiously, part numbers (except one) are not found on the one online source I use for all my Datsun part number needs.

    Edited by dhp123166

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    5 hours ago, dhp123166 said:

    " I suspect" = opinion.

     

     

    Actually "I suspect" is a nice way of saying I would trust the opinion of the other two members over your observations...

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    19 hours ago, Patcon said:

    Actually "I suspect" is a nice way of saying I would trust the opinion of the other two members over your observations...

    Right because reality is now whatever I believe it to be.

    Alternative facts y'all.

    Edited by dhp123166

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