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Rear Spindle Pin

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I know there are many threads on this topic, but I need your advice.

i couldn’t get the spindle lock pin out so I took it to a local machine shop.  I said he could take out the spindle pin too.  He removed the lock pin but stripped one end of the pin.  He said he heated the entire area to almost glowing red, but the spindle pin wouldn’t budge. 

Advice please:  he wants to now cut thru the spindle pin between the gaps where the strut joins the link.  He’ll then remove the strut assembly and then focus on removing the remainder of the pin from the link.

thoughts?

Edited by wadelester

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Was he pounding or using a press?  I got fooled on one because the pin was actually stuck in the ribber bushing.  So it would move in the cast housing when I pounded on it but the bushing would pull it back.  Looked it was stuck in he housing but it was stuck in the bushing.

You can put a lug nut on the end of the pin and spin it.  Same thread.  This will break up rust and get some lubricant moved around.

In the end though, many people cut it like he wants to do.

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41 minutes ago, wadelester said:

I know there are many threads on this topic, but I need your advice.

i couldn’t get the spindle lock pin out so I took it to a local machine shop.  I said he could take out the spindle pin too.  He removed the lock pin but stripped one end of the pin.  He said he heated the entire area to almost glowing red, but the spindle pin wouldn’t budge. 

Advice please:  he wants to now cut thru the spindle pin between the gaps where the strut joins the link.  He’ll then remove the strut assembly and then focus on removing the remainder of the pin from the link.

thoughts?

That's how I did it....

https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/50908-1976-280z-restoration-project/?do=findComment&comment=482265

https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/50908-1976-280z-restoration-project/?do=findComment&comment=482551

Edited by wheee!

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Thanks for your input.

He had a 50 ton press with no luck.  I gave him the go-ahead on cutting the pin...fingers crossed.

Thanks again.

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I made three pullers and they literally self destructed trying to make any difference to the spindle pin.
A puller will work on a ‘loose’ pin. It will have zero luck on a ‘stuck’ pin.
See my thread for pics of the exploded pullers.

8d265c2372025908f5484366e106ab66.jpg

Edited by wheee!

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Cutting through the pins at the small gap between the control arm and the knuckle is SOP. Just make sure he has enough gap for the saw blade width and doesn't damage either the arm or the knuckle.

Good luck. And remember that it's a rite of passage. 

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Yup. I've been lucky with most of the spindle pins I've had to remove but I've had three or four that had to be cut and the remnants pressed out.

There's one thing I've noticed about many of the spindles I've extracted: The metal is relatively soft and is "mushroomed" at the edge(s) of the Lock Bolt chamfer easily by improper installation of the Lock Bolt. I've pulled quite a few that were not locked due to corrosion but were difficult to move because of the "swelling" near the Lock Bolt. I've generally found that if I can rotate the spindle, I can usually knock it out with a drift - even if it's mushroomed. Always put your Lock Bolts in correctly and torque them properly to avoid this type of damage to the middle of the spindle.

Edited by cgsheen1
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Most of us have some sort of horror story with spindle pins being the center of attention.

Mine was the passenger side. The drivers side came out so easily I could re-use it again if needed. I thought, "what are all these guys talking about". 2-1/2 days later I knew all too well.

My advice based on my humble experience:

If it looks rusted and seized just saw through it. Saw between the strut and both lower control arm pivots so you can get to the seized section in the strut. Be careful not to cut into the strut or control arm.

Heat the strut until it has a dull glow, but don't point the torch at the end of the spindle pin. You do NOT want to heat the spindle pin. The idea is to heat the strut so it will expand and release some of its grip on the spindle. Then you can press it out. If you heat the spindle pin ends too much they will become soft. The end will mushroom from the pressure you put on it and it will expand and seize in the strut making it more difficult to push through.

When removing the outer two sections of the spindle pin from the control arm. Heat the control arm only. That will transfer through the control arm to the rubber insulator and it will soften release. Hold the threaded end of the spindle pin with pliers or vice grips and keep trying to turn it. Eventually it will let go and you can pull it out with the rubber. The outer tube from the bush can then be removed. That is the easiest way I found to remove these rubbers in general. A lot of people try to burn them out, creating a lot of toxic fumes and smoke.

Good luck.

Edited by EuroDat
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Thanks to all of you...your insight (and encouragement) help keep my project moving. 

The machine shop cut the pin, applied heat, and applied 90 tons of pressure.  For $75 I had him remove the lock pin, spindle pin, and strut cap.

considering he probably had three hours into it, I guess it wasn’t too bad.

I’ll do the other side soon.

thanks again.

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Welcome to the spindle pin club.   :victorious:

These people who build spindle pin pullers and think that's the answer... Now you know the truth.

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I think these tools are a good choice for spindle pins that are in any kind of salvageable condition. The spindle pin (drivers side) in those photos looks just like my drivers side spindle pin, but Careless' is a little rusty at the front lower control arm joint.

I don't doubt the quality of the tool Careless made. It looks great and the bench vice square cut thread is the way to go for sure. The problem comes down to a really seized spindle pin will require so much force that the threads on the spindle or the tool, depending on hardnees of the threaded bar will give way and strip clean.

Hardway documented his ordeal in his thread. I think my ealier post repeated my advice (post #7) in Hardways thread 6 years ago?

 

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Yep, this is a right of passage for any Z owner..  I believe there was a loaner puller tool floating around for a few years.  Anyone know what happened to it?

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On 8/3/2019 at 1:41 AM, EuroDat said:

I think these tools are a good choice for spindle pins that are in any kind of salvageable condition. The spindle pin (drivers side) in those photos looks just like my drivers side spindle pin, but Careless' is a little rusty at the front lower control arm joint.

I don't doubt the quality of the tool Careless made. It looks great and the bench vice square cut thread is the way to go for sure. The problem comes down to a really seized spindle pin will require so much force that the threads on the spindle or the tool, depending on hardnees of the threaded bar will give way and strip clean.

The photos you see there are of my spindle pin tool being used on one of Chris' spindle pins.

Think back to all the spindle pin photos you've witnessed, and you may recall that the actual part that goes through the spindle bore is not particularly rusted to sh*t. It's always the bushing collars that hang up the pin on both ends (or the pin is just tweaked a little- in which case; god help you). It's pretty much the same on any car that has bushing collars in an old bushing pod. That's almost always where the bolt is seized.

When I used this tool on the car I made it for, I had to heat up one spindle pin so that the bushings would melt inside the control arm and allow the pin to pull the collar through the bushing. I also heated the spindle cast iron itself quite a bit with a MAPP torch. The other side eventually popped loose out of the collar on its own, but really the best way to go about it being stuck on both ends is to preload the side with the tool and use an air chisel with a flat headed anvil on the other side. The combined forces will ensure you aren't stripping threads and you're pushing it in the right direction. In total it probably took me about 20 minutes for that one without having to bust out the air chisel.

It seems like Honda is the only company that goes through the trouble of splining/hobbing/rifling the shank of their fasteners to allow lubricant to remain between the pin/bolt shank and the collar to prevent this from happening- but even in certain climates it doesn't prevent the same problem completely, it only allows the corrosion process to take longer to become a pain in the arse.

Edited by Careless

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I finally got to try my spindle pin puller last night.  I made it years ago using high quality 1" acme threaded rod and a front strut bearing.  Granted, the car isn't super rusty, but it worked great.  I had the RH pin out in less than 2 minutes once I got the wedge bolt out. 

I'm doing a rear disc conversion on my race car, so I pulled the stub axle and spindle pin.  I will replace the wheel bearings and outer control arm bushings while it's apart.  I was pretty happy with the job.  The hardest part was cutting the peened sections off the axle nut without touching the stub axle threads.

Tonight, I will pull the LH side apart and then start pressing bearings.  The real test for the puller will be on the spare corner modules I have in storage.  Those came off a really rotted car and they are likely going to need to be cut and pressed out.

IMG_1715.JPG

IMG_1711.JPG

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4 hours ago, Jeff G 78 said:

I finally got to try my spindle pin puller last night.  I made it years ago using high quality 1" acme threaded rod and a front strut bearing.  Granted, the car isn't super rusty, but it worked great.  I had the RH pin out in less than 2 minutes once I got the wedge bolt out. 

I'm doing a rear disc conversion on my race car, so I pulled the stub axle and spindle pin.  I will replace the wheel bearings and outer control arm bushings while it's apart.  I was pretty happy with the job.  The hardest part was cutting the peened sections off the axle nut without touching the stub axle threads.

Tonight, I will pull the LH side apart and then start pressing bearings.  The real test for the puller will be on the spare corner modules I have in storage.  Those came off a really rotted car and they are likely going to need to be cut and pressed out.

Being a race car will you be going back to the stock control arm and new pin or an adjustable aftermarket control arm? Just curious.

 

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Just now, gundee said:

Being a race car will you be going back to the stock control arm and new pin or an adjustable aftermarket control arm? Just curious.

 

As much as I'd like to go with Apex or T3 arms, I will stick with stock arms for now.  Someday, I might switch though.  The pins should come out super easy the next time around.  The engine work, brake upgrade, wheel upgrade and complete vehicle rewiring project is all the wallet and clock can handle this winter.

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I went thru the same thought process, but decided on the stock arms as well.

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There is no reason to put the locking pin back in. In fact a threaded rod works just fine instead of a spindle pin. I have the T3 RC arms in my race car which has over 180 track days. The threaded rod that came with the RCA is still working fine and I see no reason that a similar rod couldn't be used in a set of stock arms.

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19 hours ago, gnosez said:

There is no reason to put the locking pin back in. In fact a threaded rod works just fine instead of a spindle pin. I have the T3 RC arms in my race car which has over 180 track days. The threaded rod that came with the RCA is still working fine and I see no reason that a similar rod couldn't be used in a set of stock arms.

I'm torn on the wedge bolt.  My RH one was pretty beat up, so I either need to buy new ones, or leave them out.  If I leave them out, I will likely silicone over the hub holes before I ever put it back together to keep moisture out.  If I put them back in, I'll antiseize them well.  

Does yours have a threaded rod, or a bolt like their web site shows?  I don't think a threaded rod would be a good idea.  The threads are never going to be as tight a fit as the pin's smooth shaft and it could cause play in the joint.  Any movement will equal slight toe changes under either cornering or accel/decel.  I looked at the T3 site and their bolt has a smooth shank for one rod end and the hub, but the other rod end sits on the threads.  I think they should have sourced a bolt with a longer shank, but at least the hub and one of the two rod ends are supported.  You can actually see in the photo how the threaded end is slightly smaller OD than the shank.

Apex Engineered arms have a similar design as T3.  Again, I would have used a bolt with a longer shank.  Nissan would never engineer a joint like that nor would any other auto manufacturer.  

doubleadjuster.jpg?itok=0VwAOioR

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This topic has come up before.  If the nut falls off of the bolt the bolt can slide out and the wheel can swing away from the control arm.  If the nuts fall off of the spindle pin the assembly stays together, it's just looser than it was.  The lock pin locks all of the parts together.

Lots of things on the car aren't needed for operation.  You could safety wire the nut on the bolt, or the nuts on the spindle pin, and be about as safe, I guess.  

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