Looking to make a "square" L24 with LD28 crank...

[Zed Head]

Plans include:

L24 block with stock 83mm bore,

Ported stock head with bigger valves (if possible),

LD28 83mm stroke crankshaft (knife edged),

11:1 compression ratio (91+ octane fuel only),

Lightweight conrods (not sure of length),

Lightweight dished pistons,

New cam (not sure which),

New valvetrain (lightweight, high ratio),

Not sure of intake, 3x2 maybe, or ITB

Might put a mild (75hp) shot of juice to it just for fun.

Curious what your estimates were for this plan. Parts alone, plus machine work, plus assembly, plus tuning. Seriously, it would be a good exercise and give you a much better idea of how much you'll need to spend.

I made a comment earlier about nickels and dimes. They really do add up, many people recommend doubling an initial build cost estimate,then hoping nothing goes wrong just to hit the doubled number.

Anyway, since you're at the start, it would be a lesson for anyone following if you keep track of and report the costs you incur with whatever you decide.

[madkaw]

I know that experienced engine builders carry a bit of weight, but $5000 for rebuilding an L-series engine with OEM L-series parts, and some porting is ridiculous. I cannot get over that.

I could put an LS1 in it for less than the cost of having Rebello rebuild the L24. I really like the idea of keeping it numbers matching, but screw the "Purist" build.

get over it David. You are portraying rebello as a rip-off, and the business is well respected in the Z community. I really don't think you understand what goes into this kind of work-it's a little more then a 'mild port job.' 100HP per liter-think about it.

I guarantee you will have a hard time doing a 2JZ for less. Swapping motors is not easy and the Rebello just drops in place. If you value your time, then the 2JZ will cost way more. It will cost as much anyway you look at it.

What happened to keeping the stock numbered engine?

[LeonV]

The "Purist" build is $5000. Plus carbs (I asked for the triple-double carbs) and dyno, Dave says its closer to $7500. $7500 is way out of my price range.

For that kind of cash, I can forget the vanity of having a numbers matching car, grab a 2jz-gte with the transmission for $3000, sell the twin turbos, buy an ITB intake and six throttle bodies, and still afford any fab work required for the swap.

$7500 to stroke an L24 using an OEM 280z crank and OEM 240z rods and a little port work on the head? Nope. Not me. I may be inexperienced, ignorant, naive, but I am not freaking stupid.

I know that experienced engine builders carry a bit of weight, but $5000 for rebuilding an L-series engine with OEM L-series parts, and some porting is ridiculous. I cannot get over that.

Wow... :stupid:

I've tried hard to refrain from commenting but this is getting ridiculous. Taunting Rebello combined with the misguided thought of a "square" L24 is beyond funny. Sell your Z and buy a Supra or a Corvette, that's the best advice I can give you.

I recently rebuilt an L28. I did all my own work, besides machining and mounting the exhaust. I kept a spreadsheet of costs. Everything included (besides my labor), the build cost me roughly $5,500 and that's with having a good amount of parts on hand that I didn't have to buy. In this cost, I'm including everything engine related, i.e. fuel system, cooling, induction, exhaust, etc. I put hundreds of hours of my own labor into the build, which are unaccounted for. I visited Rebello's shop to help get my head setup, and I can say without a doubt that they ARE NOT rip-off artists. In fact, after having done this build, I'd love to just pay Rebello to build my next engine (if I didn't enjoy engine building so much).

You want a cheap rebuild? Go buy one of those $1,500 Datsun Parts LLC engines and see what you get. Quit dreaming and take a dose of reality. Rebello knows what they're doing and charge a very fair price for it.

Jeebus, the ignorance of the OP is ASTOUNDING.

I could put an LS1 in it for less than the cost of having Rebello rebuild the L24. I really like the idea of keeping it numbers matching, but screw the "Purist" build.

Go for it. Let us know how it goes. Will you be keeping track of your labor cost for the swap?

Edited October 12, 2013 by LeonV

[Patcon]

I agree with Leon. The last engine I built was a 350 chevy which is fairly cheap to rebuild and I had $3500 or so in just the long block, no injection , exhaust or ignition. I did all the assembly work, motor removal and install.

The guys at Rebello build a good motor and they can back it up with numbers, experience and history. If you are good at what you do you aught to be able to charge a reasonable price for head work, machine work , parts selection, precleaning, assembly, start up, break in, crating it up and shipping it to your door ready to go into your car. There is no free lunch...

As for the swap it seems cheap up front but take Zed Heads advice and sit down and add up the nickels and dimes. That's where the swap gets expensive. New fuel lines, line adaptors, electric fuel pump, pressure regulator, fabbing mounts, cooling, exhaust work, etc. It adds up quick. $50 here $75 there before long you have spent some real money. This is not a critique or your notion to make a hybrid Z. Most guys do it for shear power but I doubt many do it because its dramatically cheaper. As a matter of fact many of the really cools hybrid swaps I have seen cost a lot more than 7k plus there are tuning headaches, unique problems to your swap etc. My 2 cents...

Leon the paragraphs are for you...

[EuroDat]

Hi David,

Welcome to the club.

I'm not going to carry on about costs. Its been handled already by other posters and with good reason.

You can find a good design utility to help find interchangeable parts in the L series engines here: Engine Design Utility

Good luck and above all have fun

Chas

[DavidBoren]

Rediculous may have been a bit out of line. I appologize to Dave, if he frequents these pages.

I have priced rebuild kits and other various parts for a mild performance rebuild and considered the machining and assembly costs. And I still find the price steep. I do understand that there are a lot of things that can cost a lot of money that may come up unexpected. I know that little costs add up fast.

I am just going to have what is in there checked and cleaned, ported, valve job, balanced, zero-decked, etc etc. Re-use everything that can be re-used. Pick up a quality bolt kit and gasket set. I will simply fix what is there, but I will fix it right.

I am not going to pay anyone $5,000 to rebuild that motor. Im just not.

[djwarner]

Hi David,

You have given conflicting data regarding the vin and circular Z emblem on the sail. There is a data plate in the rear of the driver's door well that gives the month and year of manufacture as well as the vin number. If it was made Jan 71 or before, it is a Series I.

If it is a matching numbers Series I car, I would suggest you find another L6 engine to modify and store the original engine intact. Used engines can be picked up reasonable, a matching number engine is irreplaceable. Whatever you pay for the second motor will be returned several times over when you eventually sell the car.

If the door data plate indicates the car is a Series II, have fun and do whatever you like.

I understand the car was given to you so your only sense of value is how it can fulfill you dreams. It will have a value after your dreams are realized though. I am only suggesting preserving value if only to help fund your next dream.

[Zed Head]

checked and cleaned,

ported,

valve job,

balanced,

zero-decked,

etc etc.

Pick up a quality bolt kit and gasket set.

The major disconnect is here: "goal is 240rwhp", from your first post. Don't forget drive line power losses. Some say 15%, some say 20. 10% would be conservative, so you'll need ~267 HP at the crankshaft. 95 HP/liter, 1.6 HP/cubic inch. You'll need a lot of etc. to get there.

People are just trying to add more reality to your project. Still, for those that follow, keep track of your costs and report back. You'll probably be in the thousands just to get back to like-new with stock power levels, just on the engine, let alone the rest of the car.

I'm seriously interested in where you end up. The advantage of Rebello is that his engines are a package deal and the shop is set up to for the work. You'll spend a lot of time educating shops on how to do the work. And there will probably be mistakes made, that add cost.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Zed Head

[LeonV]

The major disconnect is here: "goal is 240rwhp", from your first post. Don't forget drive line power losses. Some say 15%, some say 20. 10% would be conservative, so you'll need ~267 HP at the crankshaft. 95 HP/liter, 1.6 HP/cubic inch. You'll need a lot of etc. to get there.

People are just trying to add more reality to your project. Still, for those that follow, keep track of your costs and report back. You'll probably be in the thousands just to get back to like-new with stock power levels, just on the engine, let alone the rest of the car.

I'm seriously interested in where you end up. The advantage of Rebello is that his engines are a package deal and the shop is set up to for the work. You'll spend a lot of time educating shops on how to do the work. And there will probably be mistakes made, that add cost.

That's exactly right.

Keep track of your costs and you'll see what it takes to even do a "refresh" on an engine. If you want to compare your costs to Rebello's, also track your labor hours. BTW, I guarantee that a simple rebuild will get you nowhere near the 240 WHEEL horsepower you quoted. Frankly, this whole thread is completely ridiculous. You come in here, putting some random, dreamed-up combo of parts together to make some magical "square" engine, "but the 2JZ is square, that means I'll make so much power". I'm paraphrasing here.

You explicitly claim that you lack any engine building experience but then lambast, and continue to do so, a company whose bread-and-butter is building these engines to a high standard. This thread would've been in the shed at HybridZ long ago...

"I am not going to pay anyone $5,000 to rebuild that motor. Im just not."

Your call. Doesn't mean that the $5,000 isn't worth it. Maybe once you've actually built an engine and tracked what you've spent (time and money), you'll realize that you didn't know what the hell you were talking about.

[DavidBoren]

Thank you all, once again, for the input. Believe me, I get it. I wont see 240rwhp. I already stated it was just a figure I manifested from the model number of the car. I thought it would be cool to have a 240hp 240z. Already stated I probably will not be able to achieve it.

The square bore and stroke is simply something I wanted to try if it was possible. I know a lot of people swap L-engine parts and I saw that there was an L-engine with the same stroke as the L24 bore... thought it was worth asking about.

I also already said that I know experience comes with its price. I know that having a specialist build my engine will probably produce a better engine than having a no-name shop rebuild it. I get it. I promise.

Why people insist on replying to this topic without any useful information pretaining to the actual topic, I dont know. I dont know a lot of things. I do not know how much it costs to rebuild a motor. I do not know how to rebuild the engine myself. I do not know to swap in a different engine. Last I checked, I thought that was the purpose of asking questions. Of course I want an unreachable horsepower figure. What the hell is the point of dreaming if you arent going to dream big?

I am speaking out my arse. I admitted my ignorance right off the bat. Thank you to the three, or so, of you that actually had something useful to say. The rest of you retards that jumped on the opportunity just to starting bashing my self-admitted ignorance should take a long walk off a short dock.

[Zed Head]

Edited - Never mind - I do need to say though, that using the word "retard" in today's world is a sign of true ignorance. David needs to become more aware of the world around him, in general.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Zed Head

[John Coffey]

Wow John, tried using Search Tempest for Craigslist entries within 500 miles of La Habra for 1970 Datsun 240z. It only came up with two hits on Craigslist, a Chevy powered Z in Yuma, and one in Fresno that was deleted by the author.

Of course I omitted posting for fenders, etc. What did I do wrong?

Don't know. I just did a search and came up with six 1970/71 240Zs, one of which is a shell. Maybe your search tool misses some.