Day/night feature on Euro rearview mirrors?

[26th-Z]

Hi guys, Interesting conversation.

[kats]

Hi Mike,

This picture is the same one what Alan is saying, E4100.

In the first thread, that mirror seems a common one for Z432-R owners in Japan,

some of Z432-R owners tried to get the non-day/night mirror from Local Nissan in several years ago, but they all ended up with the mirror which is the same one in the pictures which has completely different shape.

kats

[jerz]

Mike et al,

I did not think I had a copy of a UK 240Z owner's manual, but I have found one (although the model years are not evident in the publication). As you will note from the scan, the day/night rear view mirror was standard fitment, as Alan noted in his earlier thread. There was no option for the non-day/night rear view mirror until, presumably, the post October 1977 (260Z) models, when part number 96321-N3500 appears. I found a specification sheet for a 260Z 2+2 and as you will see, like my car, this is not equipped with the day/night rear view mirror variant.

Jeremy.

[HS30-H]

There was no option for the non-day/night rear view mirror until, presumably, the post October 1977 (260Z) models, when part number 96321-N3500 appears. I found a specification sheet for a 260Z 2+2 and as you will see, like my car, this is not equipped with the day/night rear view mirror variant.

Jeremy,

My gut feeling is that this must have been a very late safety legislation-related issue. Those 'E' marks on the back of your mirror make me think Euro NCAP.....

As I wrote earlier, the first European 2+2 models had the E4601 ( listed as from October '73 ), but I don't know the applied date for the N3500. Maybe we could find out somehow?

Kats,

Thanks for confirming the E4100 details, and posting the photos. I guess a lot of original 432-R owners chose to have the dipping mirror instead of the standard non-dipping, and now there's a shortage of the 'correct' E4100 type to reverse that....

Behold, some ( disappointing quality ) I-Phone photos from my garages this evening: E4100 type non-dipping mirror ( with characteristic textured finish on the back ) and one of the super wide repro Nissan 'Race Option' GT-R / 432-R non-dippers:

[Mike B]

Look in to my eyes. Trust me. You are feeling veeeeerrry sleeeeeepy. E4100 IS A NON-DIPPING MIRROR!. Click. You're back in the room.

:eek::eek: I been hyp-no-tized :eek::eek:

Ok, I concede, the E4100 IS a non-dipping mirror. Thanks for the photos and additional information Alan, Kats and Jerz.

Have you got anything earlier than a 1973 document that mentions the E8300 number? My point is that it seems to me to be a later part number than the Aug. '71 production stamp on the item you have. I have a hunch that it's at least late '72 onwards.

Yes, I do. I have revised pages in one of my USA and Canada parts catalogs dated December 1971 that show the E8200 and E8800 part numbers used. Also, there were parts that ended with E8300 with applied dates from 1/71. 25410-E8300 Assy-Fuse Block is one such example. It looks to me like the E8xxx part numbers began in 1/71, so there is nothing unusual about a part with an 8/71 production stamp having an E8300 part number.

To my mind, that mis-match is consistent with my conviction that the E8300 mirror was a dipping type mirror anyway. If you look at the earliest R-Drive parts lists ( although my earliest R-Drive Export parts list is "Revised March 1973" ) you see both the E4100 and E8300 listed ( "Exc. Europe" and "Europe" respectively ). Since I know ( from the Japanese market parts lists ) that the E4100 is the basic non-dipping type, it follows - for me anyway - that the E8300 must be a dipping type. If it were not, then that particular R-Drive parts list would not list a dipping mirror....

One of Jerz’s scans shows that E4601 was superceded by N3500 in 10/77. We know that E4601 is a dipping mirror (I can post a picture of a new one in a box, but I think you will agree with that). I think it is possible there were two versions of the non-dipping mirror, E4100 and E8300, with E4100 being for the JDM market and E8300 being for “Europe”. I think that the E4600 dipping mirror could have been inadvertently omitted from the early RHD catalogs. Since the North American catalog erroneously lists the E4100 as applied to automatic models (never corrected thru 1978) and I have seen many other errors in the catalogs, I don’t think that is too great a stretch. Also, if E8300 was a dipping mirror, why would the part number change from E8300 to E4601? Wouldn’t going from E4600 to E4601 like it did in the US make more sense?

IKI supplied similar mirrors for other Nissan models, so I wouldn't put too much faith in the numbers stamped on the back of the mirror housing.

So you are saying that the IKI-8006 number could apply to different Nissan part numbers? Do you have an example of when you have seen something like that in the past? You seem to be putting a lot of faith in the numbers stamped on the right side of the housing (and ignoring those on the left) to indicate that Jerz’s mirror is for a European S30, but mine is not, since it doesn’t have the letter "E" and the other letter/numbers. It seems more logical that mine would just be an earlier variation of the same part and the other stamping was added to later versions of the same part. Except for the additional stamping, my mirror and Jerz’s look exactly the same, whereas the E4100 mirror you posted pictures of has a different looking case (as you noted).

To conclude, I think my mirror is the same part as Jerz’s. I can’t be sure that it is the correct box and part number, but I think it is a definite possibility.

Thanks for the pictures, especially of the racing mirror. That is much bigger than I envisioned, so it makes sense to me now why they would have offered it.

-Mike

[HS30-H]

I have revised pages in one of my USA and Canada parts catalogs dated December 1971 that show the E8200 and E8800 part numbers used. Also, there were parts that ended with E8300 with applied dates from 1/71. 25410-E8300 Assy-Fuse Block is one such example. It looks to me like the E8xxx part numbers began in 1/71, so there is nothing unusual about a part with an 8/71 production stamp having an E8300 part number.

Sorry Mike, what I was trying to get at was the full part number ( 96321 - E8300 ), not just the E8300, doesn't seem to appear until later than the inspection stamp on your mystery mirror ( I'm still not convinced that it's a 96321 - E8300 anyway... ).

We have non-dipping ( E4100 ) and dipping ( E4600 & E4601 ) type part numbers for the first few years of production, so an E8300 part number would need to indicate yet another part detail difference. I'm not sure I understand the difference between the E4600 & E4601 at this point either. They both appear to be dipping type, so what difference? Is it a glass tint, glass type ( safety glass? ) or dipping 'knob' difference?

I think that the E4600 dipping mirror could have been inadvertently omitted from the early RHD catalogs. Since the North American catalog erroneously lists the E4100 as applied to automatic models (never corrected thru 1978) and I have seen many other errors in the catalogs, I don’t think that is too great a stretch. Also, if E8300 was a dipping mirror, why would the part number change from E8300 to E4601? Wouldn’t going from E4600 to E4601 like it did in the US make more sense?

Yes I take your point, and I agree that there are lots of mistakes in the parts lists - so we should be careful. That E4100 listing in the USA / Canada list might have been a typo ( should have been E4600? ).

So you are saying that the IKI-8006 number could apply to different Nissan part numbers? Do you have an example of when you have seen something like that in the past? You seem to be putting a lot of faith in the numbers stamped on the right side of the housing (and ignoring those on the left) to indicate that Jerz’s mirror is for a European S30, but mine is not, since it doesn’t have the letter "E" and the other letter/numbers. It seems more logical that mine would just be an earlier variation of the same part and the other stamping was added to later versions of the same part. Except for the additional stamping, my mirror and Jerz’s look exactly the same, whereas the E4100 mirror you posted pictures of has a different looking case (as you noted).

Yes, I think the 'IKI 8006' stamping relates to the glass & housing rather than the whole part. I've seen similar mirror housings, but with different stalks ( for different models ). No photos I'm afraid ( didn't know I was going to be asked for proof...! ) but it seems to make sense to me.

I think that 'E' mark on jerz's mirror would - at the very least - indicate that it needed to have a different part number than your mirror. If Nissan had two different versions of the same part, but used the same part number for both, then it would not make sense if one of them complied with Euro NCAP legislation. It would be all too easy to fit the non 'E'-marked part to a car that needed to have the 'E' mark. If it were simply a case of 'early' and 'late', it would again need an updated part number to avoid the 'early' part being fitted where the 'late' type was legally required.

I concede that your 'mystery' mirror might well indeed be a 96321 - E8300, but if it is, then I don't think jerz's mirror is a 96321 - E8300 too.....

Alan T.

Edited October 12, 2010 by HS30-H
typo

[26th-Z]

Let me throw some grease on the fire and say that the suffix code (E4100, E4600, E8300, N3500) does not necessarily imply a physical difference in the material part. The E8300 could well mean a second run, or manufacture batch, of the earlier part design. I agree that in the vast majority of cases there IS a physical difference, however it just may be nothing more than casting codes. There are also numerous discrepancies between the US part catalogs and the Japanese. I'm finding many cases where the E4100 refers to the S30-S and PS30 indicating the "root" model types with E4101 or E4600 (for example) used for various market destinations. In many cases there is no apparent difference in the part.

Safety glass would be used for mirrors in this time period. I agree.

Great mirror, Alan. Put that one on my "must have" list!

[HS30-H]

I know what you mean, Chris. But what about this mysterious mirror of Mike B's with the 96321-E8300 number on the box? How would a late 1971 production date make sense for that to actually be a 96321-E8300 mirror?

We can see that Mike's mirror is clearly different to the early type non-dipping mirror ( 96321-E4100 ), so why two different non-dipping mirrors at the same period of production? If it were a mirror from a Sunny, Bluebird or Skyline that accidentally got put in an E8300 box ( or if the real E8300 from that box is now on a car, and the mirror in the box is what it replaced... ) then it would all make a little bit more sense to me.

The update from E4600 to E4601 seems to make sense too, and occurs across more than one market so we can cross-reference a little. E8300 only seems to make sense to me if it is a dipping type.....

Sorry to be so tenacious, but it would be nice to get to the bottom of this and I just don't 100% trust what I find in 'NOS' boxes anymore!