Poor man's Porche

[conedodger]

From the PCA, the phrase was first turned in the late 60s in reference to the 912. Then later applied to the 914, 924, 944, 968 and Boxster. Basically, if you couldn't afford a 911 you were labelled "poor."

BTW, what was ill-fated about the 944? Beautiful lines, good power, exceptional handling, 50/50 balance and solid 8-year production run that converted to the 968 in 1992, ran until 1995 when the Boxster was introduced in 1996. NASA has a vibrant spec944 racing series with a lot of serious racers involved. Maybe you just meant the 924 was ill-fated?

Additionally, the Ferrari 246 Dino was also referred to as a "Poor Man's" Ferrari. After all, it only had 4 cylinders and was (gasp) mid-engined! Of course, nowadays not many poor men can afford a 246....so they buy the next iteration of the PMF--the 308. It's not 12-cylinders, so it's not a Ferrari, right?:sick:.

The irony of the "Poor Man's Porsche" be it the 912 or the 914, is that good examples are nearly (or greater than) the value of some 911s. Additionally, the 246 Dino regularly outprices Testarossas and the occasional 512BBi!

The 944 was ill-fated because the CEO of Porsche at the time thought it was the wave of the future and would replace the 911, front engine, watercooled etc... Along came a new CEO and when he looked at sales he went to the design office and extended the time-line for the 911 all the way around the room on the planning board. That was 1983. We then got the Carrera in 1984.

I have always heard the 912, 914, 924, 944 refered to as the poor mans Porsche. I have owned a 944S2 and have a 914 and a 911 presently...

[trisha]

here in so cal in the 80,s the Z was called the "poor mans sports car" because it was cheap, and in those days very cheap. The term was used to suggest that you were a poser who could not afford a new or more expensive sports car. Back in those days some felt moving "up to a 280zx" meant you were better off financially.

Poor mans Porsche was always directed at 914/924 owners.

Now when people see the Z they only reflect about dads or older brothers or good times with their own Z. In my part of town the old talk about poor Zs is gone.

[Carl Beck]

Regarding the graph of the increasing values of the 240Z, 914, and Alfa moving up into the $13,000 - $15,000 range over 20 years...... According to the graph, all started at $5,000 - $7,000. For comparison, let's look at $5,000 in cash invested at 5% compounded for the same 20 years. It would be worth $13,266.49 today.

Subrtact 20 years of insurance and routine maintenance costs on the cars and you probably have a negative number. Keep the cars for their warm fuzzy intangible value, not as part of your retirement portfolio.

Dennis

Yes - but - you would have to subtract the Federal Income Tax, every year from interest income - and you wouldn't wind up with $13,266.49 either. Lets face it, if you are a law abiding citizen - your screwed.

I agree with keeping the cars for the pleasure they provide - 20 years of enjoying your investment - vs - 20 years of having the bank use your money.

Drop dead at year 15 - and you have enjoyed your investment in the car, drop dead at year 15 with cash in the bank - and someone else will enjoy buying themselves a new car -

Life's decisions are so compound... ::

later,

Carl B.

[kats]

Thank you for all of you making various inputs for my question.

I am sorry I could not make reply quickly.

I learned about Porsche little bit here,it is interesting to know about 914,924, etc there are stories behind those car,it is interesting.

Some of you are pointing out about "Jaguar" as the car talking about here, "poor man's Jaguar " yes, I have heard it before in some Japanese magazine.

What am I feeling about poor man's Porsche at this point?With regarding all of your inputs,

I do not think many people were saying/considering 240Z as a poor man's Porsche (Jaguar).

A very few journalists commented in a few magazine?

kats

[Carl Beck]

I heard a radio comercial for Darien Nissan Ct. the other day with Bob Sharp talking about the history of the Z. He mentions his racing days and that the Z was introduced to compete with the higher priced Porsches of the day and won .

While Mr. Sharp is certainly correct, in that the Datsun 240-Z took on the then reigning C-Production Champion 911's for the first time in 1970 - and beat them on the track!

The Datsun 240-Z really took on the competition in the sports car Market in America, comprised of all other competitors in the $3500.00 price range ie..... MG-B, Triumph TR-6, Fiat 124 Sport Coupe/Spyder, Opel GT, Capri V6, Porsche 914. All had MSRP's within a few hundred dollars of the 240-Z.

Too many people keep referring to the Datsun 240-Z's low price as the main reason for it's success - yet it was priced within the same price range as all of it's sports car market competitors. It put them out of business for the most part - and 38 years later Porsche is still doing well with its evolution of the 911.

The Poor Mans Porsche - is a used Porsche that is 7 to 9 years old. Rich or Poor, if a man wants a Porsche - then nothing but a Porsche will do.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[mazingerz1976]

I heard a radio comercial for Darien Nissan Ct. the other day with Bob Sharp talking about the history of the Z. He mentions his racing days and that the Z was introduced to compete with the higher priced Porsches of the day and won . I think he finally sold his Nissan dealership located in Wilton a couple of years ago but still in the area I guess.

And they are still wining, here in my country, there is a racing championship (San Diego Circuit) just for the oldies, and you can find 240Zs always in the first positions over the Porsches, FIATs, Alfa Romeo, MG, etc....

Camilo

[Carl Beck]

In 2007, $3,500.00 from 1970 is worth:

$18,684.27 using the Consumer Price Index

$15,209.46 using the GDP deflator

$20,843.67 using the value of consumer bundle *

$20,843.67 using the unskilled wage *

$31,673.48 using the nominal GDP per capita

$46,648.58 using the relative share of GDP

From: Measuring Worth dot com

http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/

[26th-Z]

Carl, I luv ya 2 pieces but the fact is that the 240Z never took on the reigning C-Production 911 of Milt Minter. Minter won the national championship in Daytona in 1969, but by 1970 the Porsche effort was represented with 9 Porsche 914-6s. The C-Production national championship was the highlight of the 1970 ARRC. Held at Road Atlanta for the first time, the fierce battle staged the Datsun 240Z against the best of Triumph, Porsche and Lotus. Porsches were fielded by Peter Gregg, Alan Johnson, Ritchie Ginther and Elliot Forbes-Robinson. Five Datsun 240Zs were entered, driven by John Morton, Bob Sharp, John McComb, Jim Fitzgerald, and Jack Scoville. As if this wasn't enough, two Triumph TR-6s were entered; Bob Tullius and Kas Kastner. Kastner did not start, however. Tullius took an early lead and exchaged it for several laps with John Morton before falling back on lap seven and finally retiring on lap eleven of the nineteen lap race. Bob Sharp finished second and John McComb rounded out a Datsun Sweep. The Porsche 914-6s were never in contention.

Worth mentioning is that John Morton's pole qualifying time was 0.7 sec. faster than the fastest B-Production qualifying Corvette.

[bigoak]

Just ensure we are calculating things properly, the above graph starts in 1988 with the "Black Book - Excellent Quality" pricing at that time. So...

$6,134.38 using the Consumer Price Index

$5,532.43 using the GDP deflator

$6,812.92 using the value of consumer bundle *

$6,812.92 using the unskilled wage *

$7,701.28 using the nominal GDP per capita

$9,491.86 using the relative share of GDP

Judging by some of the shape a lot of the Z's on E-bay are in...I'd use the unskilled wage benchmark...

[Mike B]

Kats,

I saw this ebay listing for an Australian newspaper dated Feb 15, 1971 and it reminded me of your old thread. The article is titled "The Poor Man's E-type Jaguar" http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120662060453&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT.

-Mike

[geezer]

Nice find Mike. I couldn't help but read the entire thread once again. I'm sure that the comparisons made over the years referring to the Z as a "poor mans version", varied around the world. I know XKEs were seen more often than any model of Porsche around here, at the time. Keep an eye open, we might yet find similar references in print from the early 70s to Porsche or other manufacturers.

Edited December 19, 2010 by geezer

[tlorber]

Interesting thread. I never would have seen it were it not revived. One item that is only briefly mentioned here is that it is not the purchase price, but the maintenance cost that will kill you on the old Porsches. E.g. I recently bought a tranny rebuild kit for my 5 speed for $130.00. A Porsche tech I know told me that the corresponding kit for an early 911 would be around $500-$600.

At the end of the day, in addition to just liking an understanding Japanese cars, I like the fact that here in Los Angeles, old Z's are WAY less common than old 911"s. I'd say that for every pre '75 Z I see, there are 10 long hood 911's, and you can't throw a rock without it landing on some newer Porsche.