Mitchel0407

As the title implies I want to find out if a stock 280z with the L28E (fuel injected) can start and run without the dashboard. My 1977 280z will be dropped of at the body shop next week for new Apex Engineered frame rails and front fender braces. The body shop would like to have the car running so it’s easier to move around the shop. In the meantime I would like to restore my dashboard and replaced a few tings like the bulbs and the speedometer. But for that I need to know if I can remove the dashboard and still be able to start the car. Does anybody know if the 280z can be started without a dashboard?

That’s terrible to hear! Take your rest and hopefully you will be doing better soon. I hope to have my 280z back on the road in about a month, I’ll be in touch to come visit you. @keijz Maybe an idea to join the Z ZX club Holland WhatsApp group. There are a bunch of people from the Netherlands and Belgium there that can help you. If you want I can send you the invite link.

Was the same with my ’77 280z. A good start is to clean all the electrical connectors in the engine bay with contact spray and a brass brush. The brass brush is firm enough to clean the connectors and really get in to them but not damage the plastics. These EFI systems are a bit weir sometimes. Mine ran really rich on idle no matter what I did but I started her yesterday for the first time in a couple of months and the AFR was right on the mark for both idle and power. Maybe she just didn’t like the cold?

Welkom to the forum!! If you need any help or information just ask! Most information has already been posted but sometimes it can be hard to find or people just don’t read the question properly and sidetrack the whole post. I can’t find the original post at the moment but I did find a complete wiring schematic for a ’77 280z a while back, I’ll attach it to my post. This might help you clean up the wiring harness a bit. As for the EFI system check all the sensors for the correct measuring ranges, the coolant temperature sensor and AFM in particular. The coolant sensor is easy to come by if it’s bad but the AFM’s are rare and rebuilds are expensive. I did find that an AFM from a Mazda 626 / Ford Probe will work with some adjusting. Alternatively upgrading to a Fast EFI for a stock replacement or fully programmable ECU setup might be a good choice if the stock, and to be honest pretty outdated setup, gives you too much trouble. All in all the 280z and all S30 Z’s are pretty easy to work on with a ton of information and aftermarket parts available online. N77ZCAR-WIRING.pdf

That’s strange, it shouldn’t take that long. I ordered some parts from them during black Friday and they arrived within 3 weeks, that’s including shipping to Europe. You can always try and contact them to ask about your order status. Looking at there social media account they do seem very busy at the moment.

I’m still a bit jealous that American garages are so much wider then European once. I can fit my Z in my garage but working on it becomes impossible and not to mention the inability to even place shelves or cabinets to store things. A standard garage here is only 3 meters wide (9,8 feet) and mine only has a 2 meter (6,5 feet) wide door. I would kill to have the space of a double garage with room for a two post lift but my only option is a Quickjack. Picture of my 280z without doors and fenders inside of the garage for reference.

Due to EU regulation you are not allowed to tow more than the wet weight of the car, so in my case that’s 1400kg (3100lbs). But I can confirm that she tows 3500kg (7700lbs) no problem using my dad’s 15 feet (without hitch) trailer, picture for trailer size reference.

I currently daily drive my base spec highway cruiser 2018 Opel Astra Sports Tourer with the 110hp 1.6CDTI diesel tuned up to 145hp and 278ft/lb of torque. Seeing as gas prices and road tax are pretty high in the Netherlands and I drive a lot for work I really needed a cheap, reliable and fuel efficient car. For context per month I pay $160,- in road tax + $90,- for all risk insurance and diesel cost $8,02 a gallon ($8,55 for normal gasoline). With a MPG of 60 and currently 156.000 miles on the odometer my shitty Opel (GM/Stellantis platform) is still going strong. The car is also incredible simple to maintain with the ability to do all maintenance myself. I also get compensated $0,37 per mile for my daily commute so the car has already paid for itself. It might be boring but it’s comfortable, fuel efficient and gets the job done. (Photo taken by my girlfriends analogue camera)

I know most people on this forum want as much stock and original parts as possible but, at least it’s my opinion, maybe some modern upgrades / mods are in order to keep these cars on the road. Aside from all the aftermarket suspension upgrades I know that Apex Engineered also sells new steering racks (with right hand inner tie rods) and just the right hand thread inner tie rods. Replacing just the inner tie rod(s) for right hand thread once might be a good solution for the NLA drivers side outer tie rod. And yes Apex does sell them separately and in pairs. https://apexengineered.com/shop/s30-240z-260z-280z/inner-tie-rod/ No I’m not sponsored I just like what they’re doing and ordered some stuff to fix my 280z.

Shame you had to get rid of the 240z but glad to see the 280zx getting some more attention. I just ordered some parts from the US and will try to fix my 280z over the coming winter. I will definitely come visit you this spring with my 280z!

After many nights thinking about it, the current Black Friday sale and optimizing my order for the most value for my money I finally decided to pull the trigger. Maybe it’s because of the size and weight of the total order but the calculation of the shipping was a bit weird. As the parts will need to be shipped to the Netherlands I knew the shipping would be expensive but my shipping came down to almost $600!! By combining some stuff I got the shipping to drop down to $280,- while still giving me the stuff I wanted and basically a free rear strut brace. Here is a list of all the stuff I got: - Front fender brace - Frame rails - Rear strut brace - Front control arms - Steering knuckles - Front crossmember - Upper steering rack clamps - Rear control arms While weighting my options Apex dropped there Retro Mod line of suspension which allows you to keep the stock R180 or R200 long nose differential, axles and spindles. I really wanted to get the new rear suspension and subframe but found it to be too expensive for me at this time. By dropping the rear subframe I got to order the front crossmember, control arms and steering knuckle and still be a lot cheaper off. Weirdly ordering all the front suspension bits separately was almost $300,- cheaper than buying the Retro Mod front suspension kit. Seeing as I don’t need the tie rods (and the steering rack, you need to buy that separately) I’m even cheaper off. I already contacted my body shop about it and I think we will have the car back on the road by the end of winter. They will also put the car on a frame machine and measure the car to see if the chassis is twisted. And yes Zed Head I heard you about the bushings but besides that there might be more going on. Along with the new control arms all bushings will be replaced before going to the body shop.

I think that twin stack muffler will be way to loud without a serious resonator behind it. I do like loud cars and the Z’s sound awesome with some more noise but I think that muffler would be to much. But seeing as you already have it I would say it doesn’t hurt to just throw it on and see how she sounds. As for repairing the old muffler I wouldn’t really recommend it. You could try but the steel usually isn’t the best quality which makes welding hard and it won’t look that good. So if you can spare it I would suggest looking at a new one, maybe a JDM dual stake muffler? I know Zstory from France has some nice option for stock US and JDM look. I haven’t used anything from Zstory but I do find them very interesting. First up is getting my 280z on the road and then I can slowly move towards engine work for which I’m highly considering them.

As I’ve documented on this forum before I got kind of stift by the auction company and the previous owner of my 77 280z. The frame rails are rusted and need replacement to pass inspection and something is wrong with the rear suspension. I’m trying to not spend too much money at the moment but still want good parts that will stay on the car trough out the build as doing thing twice costs more in the long run. I will have to take the car to a body shop to get the frame rails welded so I’ll be looking to get pre made frame rails to save on labor cost. That gives me two choices, 1,5mm thick reproduction rails from KF vintage or the 3mm thick rails from Apex. The KF rails are send trough a warehouse in Spain so that saves a lot on import cost for me but the Apex rails are twice as thick which may give the almost 50 year old car some much needed strength and rigidity. Does anybody have the Apex rails on there car and how are they holding up? As for the rear suspension the question is if it is the chassis itself that’s crooked or something in the suspension. As I can’t find many stories of bend chassis online I’ll take the bet that it’s the rear suspension. That means I’ll have to look for adjustable rear control arms. That way even if the chassis itself is a little bit crooked I can tune it out for now till the car will be fully restored. Again that search let me back to Apex, there was also Silver Project from Europe which was a lot cheaper but I don’t hear much good from them. Has anybody installed the rear (or front) control arms from Apex with mostly stock suspension? I currently have a list of products form Apex which interests me and I’ll probably wait till Black Friday to see if they got any good deals. I don’t know if I’ll order everything but the frame rails and rear control arms I’ll probably order. This is what I’m interested in at the moment: - Frame rails - Rear control arms - Fender brace (If the car gets welded anyway, why not) - Rear strut brace - Front control arms - Low profile outer tie rods (I run 15” atm) - Inner tie rods (because of the threat difference) - Steering knuckles All combined should give the chassis and suspension a nice upgrade and the adjustability I need to get the car on the road. I do plan on keeping the four lug setup and the coilovers that are currently on the car. I do like there coilovers but That may be too much money for now. Yesterday I contacted Apex Engineered with some questions and they claim that the suspension components I’m looking at do work with the stock components. Are there people on here running Apex components (except the track attack kits) and what is your opinion on them. *note: this is a copy of my threat on HybrideZ

I was thinking more about the Spiderman meme of multiple Spiderman’s pointing at each other. But you’re right. Maybe I am a bot….. Maybe you are a bot…… Maybe we all are bots living in the matrix!

I think you rage baited him to hard by calling him out and now he’s too afraid to show his face. At least it’s another rage prone neckbeard AI bot gone from the forum.

Found out last week the previous owner of my 280z lied and both frame rails are rusted out, also the rear suspension sits crooked under the car. The rust can be easily repaired but costs a lot of money but the suspension issue is likely a twisted or bent body. All in all the wife isn’t happy with the extra costs but she knows I won’t sell the car.

Painfull but true

That’s an awesome piece of kit! Once the car has been repair and on the road again I’ll come visit to test it out!

Route 66 Auctions wich is owned by E&R Classics in Waalwijk (The Netherlands). Honestly I don’t recommend ever buying a car through there auction. The bidding was vague and none transparent as you can’t see who bid on the car. I don’t need to know the bidders name but some reference or time stamped bidding history would have been nice as I strongly suspect the seller was driving the price up. The auction fee was also pretty high (9% + 21% tax on the 9% auction fee) especially for the lack of service and buyers protection the auction company offers. I already had contact with them over the phone, the guy told me to send an email to there administration and hung up on me. That was pretty rude but fine. So I emailed my findings to there administration and this morning I got an email in which they tell me “the condition of a vehicle can be subject to a persons perception”. I get this but then they shouldn’t have claimed the car was free of rust and structural damage. Basically they try and tell me to just get lost. This will be the first and last time I will ever buy a car from or through that company.

Good news! First off, the Ford/Mazda/Toyota (and so on) AFM actually works! In my opinion this is a huge win for everybody that wants to keep these cars alive. I started of by opening up the new AFM and having a look inside. To open the new AFM was a bit more difficult than the Datsun AFM as they used a ton of silicon sealant and plugged the idle air screw from factory. The sealant can be carefully removed with a knife and the plug can be drilled out to access the idle air screw. Inside the AFM looks a lot like the Datsun unit with the exact same functionality. The resistance values between pin 6-8 and 8-9 where higher then the Datsun AFM but I still hooked the AFM up to a 12 volt battery to check for the voltage outputs as that actually matters for the stock Datsun ECU. In stock configuration from the junkyard Ford (USA) Probe the AFM gave a reverse logarithmic signal range from 1,42 to 7,77 volt. Starting at 1,42 volts when the AFM is closed and then rising quickly to around 5 volts before slowly climbing up to 7,77 volts. This is within range of what I was expecting so I decided to try and install the AFM into the car to test it out and try and dial it in. The new AFM is significantly larger than the old Datsun AFM. To install the new AFM, the intake booth and the rubber booth between the AFM and throttle body, needed to strech over the larger AFM unit. Luckly both where flexible enough and didn’t tear. The stock electrical connector just plugs right in so that was great. The new AFM unit unfortunately doesn’t have bolt holes in the bottom like the Datsun unit but mounting can be fixed by a custom 3D printed or metal bracket. I just left mine loos as I just needed to test it for now and drive to the inspection station. I had to tighten the spring (clockwise) a bit more than the 3 teeth described in the Australian forum post but that may be due to my engine having other issues causing the car to run rich. After installing the car fired straight up and with a bit of tightening and loosening of the spring I got the car to run way better than before. One nice thing about the new AFM is that you can adjust the spring gear a lot easier. Just carefully lift the little arm to the left and use your finger or a flathead screwdriver to adjust the gear. Then just let the little arm go and make sure is seated properly (rotate the gear anti clockwise a bit to properly seat it). The blue mark was the original tooth position but in the picture I rotated the gear the wrong way. As a side note I did clean my injectors and replace the fuel pressure regulator at the same time. I also found out my AAR was faulty and leaking a lot of air past the valve so I disconnected that and plugged both sides of the hose. The cheap meter I installed said about 28psi which is low but as the car is running rich and not lean I will exclude the FPR and fuel pump as a problem for now. My injector are probably just bad which sucks but the car still runs good enough for now. I also replaced my Bosch spark plugs for NGK BR6ES with 1,05mm gap and a replaced my 1,5 Ohm ignition coil with a 0,6 Ohm one just in case. I had the car inspected yesterday and the CO gas values where down to 2,4% (4,5% allowed) and all other values where good so I’m happy. Although the car ended up failing due to rusted thru frame rails and a crooked rear axle probably caused by a twisted chassis. I started a legal dispute with the auction company and previous owner as the both sold the car as “without rust and free from structural damage” but that is something for another thread. This probably the end of this thread. Although feel free to revive it if somebody has any questions and I’ll try to help out. I believe that posting information like this will help massively to understand these cars and keep them alive .

Thanks for the mention! I just updated the thread as I’m diving head first into the AFM rabbit hole. Some tips I picked up on my journey: - Clean all the electrical connectors to the sensors (also the bullet connectors in the harness). - Measure the resistance to the AFM air temperature sensor and the coolant temperature sensor to make sure there within spec (coolant sensor is one of the most important sensors in the EFI system!). - Buy or borrow a timing gun and make sure the timing is set correctly. - Verify you are getting enough spark (right type and gap spark plugs, distributer contacts in good condition, ignition coil resistance within spec (0,8 to 1 Ohm)). - Install a wideband O2 sensor with gauge (cheap Chinese one is good enough for now) or if you don’t have a bung in you exhaust buy an exhaust sniffer so you can measure you AFR (Air Fuel Ratio). Idle should be around 14,7 and wide open throttle 12,5 I believe. - Try and see (while monitoring the AFR) if only you idle or the entire rpm range is out of spec. If it’s only idle maybe try and play with the idle air screw on the AFM to get the idle AFR back into spec. And If nothing work only then take the AFM off the car and start testing the resistance values. The number 7 pin is hard to measure the resistance so you must hook it up to a battery (9 or 12V) to test the output voltage on the number 7 pin. If you determine that that is your issue then welcome to my world! As you are based in the US maybe an AFM rebuilt offered by jdm-car-parts or Z-store is an option for you. Unfortunately I am not so it would cost an fortune to do so for me in postage and import tariffs.

Little update as I don’t have much time to work on the car. After connecting the AFM to a spare battery and testing the voltage on pin 7 I noticed very inconsistent voltage readings and a lot of gaps in the carbon track even though it doesn’t look damaged. And yes I know the AFM has a logarithmic scale with a range of 0 – 9 Volt, Its basically just a voltage divider and a potentiometer in one. Here is a picture I found together with the link and some other useful links (last one is for a Range Rover but it’s the same concept and same Bosch style AFM). https://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/afm/sizeupgrade/index.html https://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/afm/index.html https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/AFMadjust.html After a bunch of searching I did fine more reference pictures of the Datsun 7 pin AFM’s and other Bosch AFM modules of the same type, that bend is 100% not supposed to be there. I did notice that if I press the copper part of the wiper hard against the carbon track I do get some sort of reading but so maybe somebody tried to “fix” the AFM by bending the wiper. Unfortunately the track has failed in its entirely and I can’t find anybody that can fix the circuit board. Enlarging the bolt slots and moving the wiper to a fresher part of the track also didn’t work. This lead me deep into the Bosch AFM rabbit hole that is the world of Datsun / BMW / Porsche forums. I found an Australian forum post that mentions a slightly larger 90’s Toyota AFM being plug and play for his L28E 280Z(X?) with the part number F201 13 210 (197100-3420). This is also a 7 pin style AFM With the same internal (and pin) layout as the Datsun 7 pin AFM’s. When looking if I could find this AFM in Europe I actually found one at a local junkyard from a 1988-1992 2.2i GT Turbo 12V Ford (USA) Probe for €25,- so I ordered it immediately to try and test this theory (same AFM was also used on the Mazda 626 and 929, also found a part number from Standerd "MF9107"). The original post did mention you need to loosen the tension on the flap by 3 teeth as the flap is bigger than the Datsun AFM’s. https://www.viczcar.com/forums/topic/6951-larger-afm-for-a-280zx If this doesn’t work I will continue to look for an replacement Datsun AFM that doesn’t break the bank (I know, that’s a tough one). I might also look into making a custom plug and play MAF swap. I found a US based company called Split Second that makes MAF to AFM conversion modules and MAF conversion kits for BMW’s. They also have a 0-9 Volt module (PSC1-009) that might work with the stock Datsun ECU in theory. https://splitsec.com/product/psc1-009-programmable-signal-calibrator-afm-to-maf-hv-output https://splitsec.com/wp-content/uploads/technotes/TN2_AFM_to_MAF_Conversion.pdf And yes I will post all my findings online as there isn’t much information to be found about AFM sensors and there alternatives. Also no I don’t want to carb swap my car, I want to stay EFI but don’t want to spend thousands yet to upgrade the entire EFI system. If anybody has a 0-5 Volt (or 5-0 Volt) AFM module that needs a rebuild / modernization I found an interesting company in Switzerland called SyncroSweets that swaps the wiper potentiometer for a modern programable potentiometer that’s plug and play. https://www.syncrosweets.ch/en/luftmengenmesser

That's a nice color and wheel combination u got there.....

Yeah no turns out I'm just an idiot who set his meter to the wrong range. Turns out my temperature sensor is just fine with a reading of 2540 Ohm at 20°C (68°F). While I had the meter in hand I decided to take the AFM off the car and measure that as well. Long story shot I believe the carbon trace or the wiper inside the AFM is defective. When measuring between pin 7 and 8 I got very inconsistent and high values. When measuring between pin 8 and the silver parts of the the circuit bord the values ranged from 180 to 10 ohm on a logarithmic scale. I did notice the wiper has a dent in it? I don't think that should be there as I believe I can see signs that it has been dragging on the trace. No clue how that could happen. Just in case can someone confirm if that dent should be there? I don't think it does as I can't see it on any reference pictures. I will try and bent the wiper back into shape tomorrow and see if that helps.

Don’t just go to the first body shop you can find. Most of the insurance painters and repair shops don’t really care as long as they get paid which leads to orange peel and miss matched paint. Like Patcon sad, ask the local automotive paint supply stores or classic car dealers (doesn’t matter which make). Had a big scratch on the passenger door of my 2008 VW Polo thanks to the previous owner (my sister’s husband). I found a local paint shop that was recommended by the dent removal guy at work (worked at the BMW motorcycle dealer for a while as a part time job). He resprayed the entire right side of the car otherwise you would see the difference in color (light grey car). All in all it cost me €600 cash and the result was perfect, you could not see the difference at all. My ’77 280z will also need some rust repair and painting within the coming years. I’ll probably take it to that guy as het specializes in high end BMW and Audi’s and rare classic BMW’s. He had a BMW 2002, E30 M3 EVO 2 and a first gen 6 series in the shop at that time for full body restauration. That and he accepts cash jobs which save me some money.