HS30-H

Wow Carl, Super-speedy editing job on zhome.com, what!? 'The First Boat Load...' page: http://www2.zhome.com:81/History/FirstBoatload.html ... and 'Locating The Remaining 1969 Production...' page: http://www2.zhome.com:81/History/69ZArticle.html ..."Updated as of 11th Aug. 2009"

If nothing else, this thread ( and the original thread on ctzcc.com ) should be a great source of comedy quotes for some time to come. To paraphrase Colonel Kilgore, "I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning.... " ( + popcorn ).

Matt, There are several people in the UK that can help you to source and fit that kind of front spoiler. Fourways Engineering of Borough Green, Kent are one that I recommend...... But the front spoiler is going to be needed only after you have recommissioned the car to proper working order after its long slumber. I'm afraid it is inevitable that you are going to have to work hard on the fuel and hydraulic systems of the car ( you might even need to remove the fuel tank to remove any sludge in it, and the fuel lines could easily be full of rust ) and many other parts and systems will need overhaul and fettling after such a long layup. If you think I can help with data or parts ( I might have what you need, or know somebody else that does ) then please don't hesitate to get in touch. Liking the factory green, by the way. Cheers, Alan T.

This talk of a 'Datsun design centre' reminded me of this photo:

OK, thanks. I can see that now. I have to say that this press release effectively says something quite different to what Katayama is often quoted as saying around the same time, doesn't it? Did the press actually take any notice of it?! I have always found it enormously frustrating that so few people outside Japan take into account the hopes, desires and dreams of the Japanese market during that period. They talk about Japan and its manufacturers as though they were solely preoccupied by export markets ( and the north American market in particular ) when it has always been clear that keeping the Japanese market happy and competing directly with their rivals there was vitally important too. Dunn / Cheyne seem to have taken quite an intellectual approach with this. Impressive. The mention of the 'American look' is interesting, but I would go further to say that there was also a 'European look' that was a great influence in Japan, and Italian industrial design / styling in particular. There was, and still is, also the curious mirror-facing-mirror effect of designers and stylists being influenced by eachother's work regardless of origin - so you could argue that this 'American look' was influenced by Italian design, which itself was influenced by American design, and so on ad infinitum. About the Nissan / Datsun thing: Of course I can see where they are coming from ( their perspective ), but I still can't take that 'Datsun design center' quote seriously because they were not designing solely 'Datsun' labelled products there. The fact that they would have been designing cars which would wear a 'Datsun' emblem in some markets would not change the fact that it was a Nissan facility and the people working there were working for Nissan. As far as they would have been concerned, they were designing Nissans, even if some of them would have ended up wearing 'Datsun' emblems.....

A couple of comments from a "circle jerking lamer purist" ( whatever that is ): What is a "stock 1971 240Z"? It's going to mean something different for every different market and every different market model, especially the softened up and dumbed down USA market models....... Of course Nissan's engineers were using metric sizes for stabiliser bar diameters! We are not talking about Imperial sizes for plumbing here, are we? And isn't 'Auxilary' just a spelling mistake, or have you really only got one 'i'? :pirate:

That's fascinating Mike, thanks for posting it here. I love seeing stuff like that. I see the old Datsun / Nissan perspective thing going on there, with Dunn / Cheyne mentioning both. That "vast Datsun design center" was of course one of the Nissan design centres. Judging by the title page, this was for internal consumption at NMC USA rather than for press purposes, yes? Isn't that Akio YOSHIDA on the right in picture no.3?

'KPC10' and 'KPC110' were both 'short front' bodies, powered by the G18 four cylinder engine. Unusual choices. 'P' prefix denoted either the Prince-derived 'G18' SOHC four, or the Prince-derived 'S20' DOHC 24-valve six. You probably mean 'KGC10' and 'KGC110' two door pillarless 'Hard Top' bodies with L20 sixes? Hope that helps

On the big multi-day events like the old RAC, the crews would have to complete a fairly huge amount of road mileage between the timed special stages - some of it early in the morning and some fairly late at night. In circumstances like that, the chance of even a relatively short kip would probably have been most welcome. It's not actually all that noisy inside the car, and on a road section it would have been fairly civilised I think. Variously - and somewhat loosely - I've seen them referred to in period as either '240ZR' or just 'ZR' variants. You have to remember that this was internal nomenclature and not for the likes of us on the outside to understand or use. The '240ZR' name was a bit of a moving target too, as the specs of the cars it was used in reference to were changing all the time, and it was used on works rally cars as well as works circuit racing cars. The works competition department had their own numbering system for the cars, and they also used a 'Maintenace Number' ( 'Kanri Bango' in Japanese ) to identify each individual car in their system. This 'Kanri Bango' system even included the works service barges - some of which were actually pretty trick; More than one of them ended up with a full works-spec triple carbed race engine. You can usually see the original 'Kanri Bango' written on the cars in period photos. It was located on the rear valance, under the bumper on the right hand side. Some of these were actually reflective number and letter stickers. Kevin's car had a 'ZR' number hand written in chalk underneath the dash. It reads '51 ZR' - so his car was probably the 51st 'ZR' at that point...... Remembering of course that the 'ZR' nomenclature could have included PZs and PZRs, as well as more than one type of '240ZR'..... No, I'm still learning. Been digging a long time but can't see the bottom of the hole yet......

Gav, These 'early' ( pre '72 season regulation change ) works cars were put together using some of the special pressings and panels that were originally created for the 432R ( as opposed to the 432, which had 'normal' panels and pressings ). So the rear quarters, roof and other panels were thinner gauge steel than 'standard' 240Z / 432 / Fairlady Z versions, whilst some of the more structural sections ( including inner and outer sills and the box sections at the rear of the car ) were thicker gauge steel than 'normal'........ Most of the FRP panels hung on the car ( bonnet / hood, doors and tailgate ) and the acrylic windows were parts originally introduced as stock and / or 'Sports Option' parts for the 432R, although there were some subtle differences due to the special conditions and needs of stage rallying ( rear window mounting, for example ). Even the seats in the rally cars were 432R type items - although some of the works rally cars ( including '3640' ) used a special reclining seat for the navigator, which was a concession to the nature of events like the Safari and the RAC in those days. Sometimes a driver would catch some rest in the navigator's seat whilst the navigator drove a road section...... So you could argue that these early works cars were essentially 'PZR' type bodies, but using L-gata mechanicals and stamped up with series production 'HS30' and 'HLS30' prefixes and body serial numbers on their firewalls and engine bay tags. They really were quite special. Here's the engine bay tag from '3640', to illustrate:

Earliest Fairlady Z models had two different air cleaner boxes - depending on the region of Japan in which they were going to be sold ( either 'normal', or 'Winter Pack' ). If we are counting, and including Fairlady Z models, we should not forget the two 432 early versions too......

AEROQUIP 1525 in the Grey / Black colourway is pretty good. Here's a piece of 5/8" AEROQUIP 1525 laid next to a 432 radiator hose. Not too bad of a match:

Not so. Tsuchiya Mfg's 'house' colour was blue, but the orange or red airboxes / filter housings were 'specials' for certain Nissan models. Replacements sometimes came in the Tsuchiya house blue because they were not made in large enough remake batches to warrant the special Nissan paint. We have discussed this more than once on this forum in the past I think......

Hi Kats, Great photos! Thanks for posting them. SAFARI MOTORS need to do something about the engine in '4150'. It has some original components on it, but it is not the correct engine for that car. When I last saw it, it even had a 'Y70' head....... About the works rally car fuel tanks: They were not identical to the Z432-R 100 litre tanks. Essentially the works rally tanks were modified versions of the 432-R tank, as they 'cut off' the two front corners ( to give clearance / protection from damage ) and relocated the gauge sender to the top ( whereas the 432-R sender was on the side of the tank, next to the filler neck - which was vulnerable for rally use ). So the 432-R tank is more of a complete four-sided oblong when seen in overhead view, whilst 70, 71 & most 72 works rally tanks had 6 sides when viewed from above. Because of this modification, the works rally tanks actually held less than 100 litres of fuel. They had 100 litre fuel gauges that were often hand marked with a dab of white paint to indicate the max fuel level......... Part way through 1972, works rally tanks changed to bladder and foam-filled types due to regulation updates. The cars that were built with ECGI injection had 110 litre bladder tanks, and some LY-equipped cars had 120 litre tanks with outside fillers housed in a cutout box with an 'Aston' filler cap built into the tailgate area ( so that the tank could be charged without opening the tailgate ). It's never simple...... Alan T.

John, These works rally cars are a moving target for the researcher. They were made in small batches, and every batch was different due to the particular event they were intended for, the lessons learned on previous examples, and sometimes also due to regulation changes. In each batch, there was often a raft of small variations between each car - so you have to view each car on a case-by-case basis. Each one was essentially unique. Once you start digging into it you begin to realise just what a huge subject it can become....... I might start to consider writing something like a book ( or even just a 'vanity publishing' booklet ) when I start to believe I know where the bottom of the research trench is. At the moment I'm just digging ( with a spoon ) and I can't imagine that I've got anywhere near where I'd like to be! And all of the works cars are of interest to me, with the works circuit racing cars perhaps of more interest personally than the rally cars - but there's a lot of cross-over between their stories. Every time you find some new information it brings up more questions and more possibilities for research, so it is endlessly fascinating but also endlessly frustrating. Still, I'd rather it was like that than too easy. The mystery has its own appeal. Here's a single shot that might help to illustrate just what Kevn faced in rescuing '3640'. He needed to save as much as possible of the original 'shell, but some of it had already physically disappeared. The works rally cars usually had their floor drain plug holes sealed up, which had long-term consequences thus:

Hi Ian, I took photos of the car all the way through the process, so I've got hundreds if not thousands of images of the car. However, all the early ones are pre-digital camera - so I will have to choose some to scan and add to the thread. Bear with me, as I'm quite busy at the moment. Cheers, Alan T.

No, the works rally cars did not get the 'LY' crossflow heads until well into 1972, And even then it was not every car. The engine of 'TKS 33 SA 3640' is extremely original. Original block, head, crank, rods, pistons, valves, valve springs (!), cam, sump, flywheel, pulleys, manifolds, carbs, etc etc etc. All the original works parts, and quite different from those of the standard cars. Very interesting to look at in a kind of post-mortem situation, although the 'patient' was revived - Lazarus like - and seemed to have suffered no ill effects from its decades of suspended animation......

To continue the story of Kevin's Works car; The photos for the OCTANE Magazine feature were taken soon after the car was finally legal for road use ( M.O.T. test passed, Road Fund License obtained and insurance paid ), but at that point Kevin had not really driven the car other than - shall we say - carefully and respectfully. However, Kevin was invited to take part in the 'Hamilton Classic Motor Sport History of Rallying' display at the 2008 'Rally Show' at the Chatsworth House stately home in Derbyshire, England on 6th and 7th June. Members of the 'Slowly Sideways' group ( all owners and users of historic rally machinery ) would display their cars at the show, and also take part in 'demo' runs on the rally stage. Typical English rallying weather prevailed ( torrential rain for the whole weekend ) and the other modern and historic cars running on the stage turned it into a quagmire with some extremely deep ridges. But undaunted, Kevin still took the car around twice on each day and put on a great display for the brave spectators. I was lucky enough to be asked to sit-in as pretend navigator ( actually no more than ballast ) and enjoyed myself immensely. It was a great privilege and an honour, and I am very grateful to Kevin for asking me. You can see some great shots of the car in action at Chatsworth, taken by photographer Mark Sims, on his 'Rally Gallery' website: http://www.rallygallery.com/2009_CHATS.aspx ( just click on the 'History of Rallying' tab ) As you can see, 'TKS 33 SA 3640' once again wore English mud as a badge of honour, and paid tribute to the men in Japan who built her, the men who drove and serviced her in-period, and bore testament to the dedication and determination of Kevin, who rescued her and made her live again....... Alan T.

This photo perhaps? Just to confirm, this is Kevin's other historic rally 240Z - UK registration number 'OMT 868K':

Thanks Carl, Money was one thing, but I have the deepest respect for Kevin's forensic mindset and the superhuman effort he put into understanding the details of this car during the time he applied himself to saving it. He seemed to put himself in the place of the Works fabricators and technicians who actually built the car so that he could understand why and how they did what they did. As the article says, he really did manage to keep the lightning in the bottle. Unfortunately, the complex nature of the car, along with the level of detailing, original feeling and patina of the car cannot be conveyed adequately in the printed media. I wish you could all see this car in the metal ( and plastic! ), to appreciate both what the Works staff built, and what Kevin has managed to save. It is truly amazing. I'm sure it has some distribution in the USA. Their website address is: www.octane-magazine.com If anybody really wants a copy, but struggles to get a single copy in the USA or Canada without subscription, please let me know and I will be happy to try and help. Cheers, Alan T.

I think you might be getting this car confused with Kevin's other 240Z historic rally car ( UK registration number 'OMT 868K' ) which is yellow, with a red stripe. That car has been rallying for most of it's life, but Kevin has a long and successful history with it ( winning the UK championship with it one year ) and still owns it. The ex-Works car ( Japanese carnet registration number 'TKS 33 SA 3640', subsequently UK registration number 'PTE 338L' ) is quite a different car, and has been occupying his free time for much of the last twelve years or so. Now that the restoration of the ex-Works car is finished, Kevin may be taking part in the occasional competitive outing in 'OMT' again..... Here's a pic of 'OMT' a couple of years or so ago:

The odd mistake did creep in.....

The August 2009 issue of OCTANE Magazine ( already on sale here in the UK ) carries a very nicely photographed five page feature on Kevin Bristow's ex-Works 1971 Datsun 240Z rally car. This car debuted on the 1971 RAC Rally here in the UK, crewed by East African Safari Rally-winning team Edgar Herrmann and Hans Schuller. Kevin has recently completed a marathon restoration that he took to extraordinary levels, and the article - written by Paul Hardiman and photographed in a studio by John Colley - describes the "Incredible, sensitive restoration of a unique survivor". It's nice to see a genuine Works-built 240Z being featured in the pages of a mainstream - and fairly swanky - magazine such as OCTANE. Kevin's car is rubbing shoulders in the pages with some pretty illustrious company..... Definitely worth picking up this mag if you have an interest in the Works cars. Alan T.

The black car is wearing replicas of the factory ( Nissan ) 240ZG 'G-Nose' panels, combined with the Nissan 'Sports Option' wide Overfenders and 'Type B' front spoiler / air dam. Nissan's own 'works' race cars used even wider versions of these Overfenders. Replicas of the factory parts are still available in Japan. The "BAMF" flares are something completely different. I believe that "BAMF" stands for something like "Big Ass Mother F****r", which I suspect is possibly not a factory designation...... :tapemouth

And it continues to be used on certain small commercials sold in Japan to this day. However, I don't think anybody in Japan mistakes the 'Datsun' brand as that of a manufacturer, and I don't believe that they ever did. Unfortunately, many people outside Japan came to believe that 'Datsun' was a manufacturer. Their dismay at the dropping of 'Datsun' as a brand must have been all the greater because of this misconception. I see you are discussing the US market as though it is the only market again. The fact is that the 'Datsun' brand was applied to Export market models sold in several other countries before the north American market was seriously entered. This is not solely a north American market related issue, and it is clear that Nissan were thinking of the broader worldwide market. I don't know how it is possible to speculate that using the 'Nissan' name as the brand instead of 'Datsun' would have led to any difference in sales preformance? In any case, you didn't have to look very hard to see that the cars were clearly marked with the NISSAN name too. This wasn't exactly a complete 'cover up', was it? What I'm still struggling to understand is the philosophy behind the 'DHM'. I don't see how this 'Datsun' brand thing can be refined down ( and seemingly divorced from its very real Nissan-related heritage ) to make a subject that can be successfully curated in a museum? I don't see how we can draw lines so arbitrarily and say "...this is part of the story, but this is not..."? If Nissan's products - regardless of target market - were ALL sold with the 'DATSUN' brand name then I could perhaps begin to see it, but when what were essentially the same designs were being sold in different markets as either Datsuns or Nissans then I don't see how you can say that the Datsun branded car is relevant to the museum, but the Nissan branded car is not. As far as I can see, they are both part of the same story.... Alan T.