HS30-H

Slightly tougher crowd here than you get on the CTZCC forum, eh Carl?

Matt, If it's for a 2-seater '260Z' then it will fit your car. The '260Z 2+2' is the one that is longer, but the 2-seater / coupe versions are all the same. Do watch out for some of the lower quality 'pattern' parts, which were never as good as the original Nissan-made panels.

Kudos to 26th-Z for fighting the good fight, again. Yes, we've been here - or hereabouts - before, haven't we? It seems that the word "Factory" means different things to different people, and may change depending on the situation. But, like most of the other times we've been here, I think it most strongly implies a direct link with the manufacturing plant that the cars came out of, and the company ( in Japan! ) which designed, engineered and commissioned that manufacturing process. I don't think NMC USA is the same thing at all....... Carl, I think you're trying to have your cake, and eat it. Historically, it is clear to see that - in the period we are talking about here especially - NMC USA was indeed one step away from Nissan Motors Ltd. of Japan. To use the term "Factory" in relation to NMC USA or its activities in the USA smacks of the kind of mumbo jumbo that salesmen and (m)ad men are apt to use. And this whole thing is about selling cars and the little nick-nacks that go on them, isn't it? Part of that snake-oil selling is the reassurance that is given to the customer, hence the "Factory Approved" moniker. It's just sales patter, that's all. Here in Great Britain, 'Datsun UK' also authorised little nick-nacks and gew-gaws to be sold alongside - or attached to - the cars they sold. It's very hard to think of these as "Factory Approved" items, in any sense of the term. If you saw any of them attached to a car, I think you'd agree. Looking at this another way, were any of those "Factory Approved" AMCO accessories sold through the dealers in Japan? I don't think they were.... Alan T.

Tom, They were manufactured to very high tolerances by a company that specialises in Magnesium castings for the motorsport industry here in the UK. They make stuff for Formula 1, FIA GT and Le Mans car constructors, amongst many others. They have produced many different 'historic' wheels in the past, for old racing cars that need new 'old' wheels for safety reasons. It kind of pains me to say ( I do love 'period' motorsports parts, warts and all when applicable! ) but they are probably better than the original works items. Not surprising considering the technological advances in casting and CNC machining since 1969/70. I believe the Elektron Magnesium used is superior to that used in the originals too. Again, not surprising. My advice is 'get 'em while they're hot'. Less than 40pcs were made in 15", and less than 50pcs were made in 14" diameter. Another batch is probably a long way off, or never going to happen at all....... If you think it would help, please get in touch with me direct and I'll introduce you to the guys that made them. Cheers, Alan T.

Good point, Mr C. I didn't have a photos of that one. It seems clear where the stylised 'NP' emblem came from. It's just a tweak of that 'P' emblem you showed. Cheers, Alan T.

Carl, The figures are from the 'Nihon Jidosha Kogyo Kai' in their 'Shadai ( Shatai ) Bango Ichi Ran Hyo'. I've mentioned the document on here before. As for the discrepancy in quantities between this document and Nissan Shatai's own records, I've mentioned that before here too. The NJKK listing gives ranges of body serial numbers issued with licence plates per calendar year for each prefix ( Domestic only, of course ) but only partially takes account of gaps in serial number sequences. Watch out for the gaps....... And I'd say that there's a good chance that both sets of figures will always be a bit rubbery, depending on what exactly was being counted, and why it was being counted ( especially when you take the matter of public Revenue into account..... ). Given everything else we know, everything else we don't know, and everything that we don't even know we don't know, I'm not all that surprised at small differences in numbers. But anyway, you take my point don't you? Big headlines like "Earliest Production Z Car Discovered" don't seem to be taking stuff like this into account, do they? Alan T.

I wonder if you might have been thinking of the combined 'N' and 'P' cypher ( as seen on the Nissan R380 A-II, R380 A-III, R381, R382 & R383 sports racers ) as opposed to the stylised, brush-stroke 'P' shield logo ( as seen on the Prince R380-I & R380 A-I )? The 'NP' cypher is often mistaken for a stylised 'P'. It seems likely that Nissan were making a conscious effort to acknowledge the 'Prince' heritage of the R380-series with this badge. Example photos: 'NP' emblem on Nissan R381, and Prince 'P' shield on 'Prince Jidosha' sticker ( on my toolbox! ):

Depends who you trust, but the latest ( and therefore possibly the more accurate ) figure is 32. There's also the question of whether you count some of the Works race cars - some of which may or may not have had accurate chassis numbers ( due to duplication, etc ). Nissan needed to make 25 432Rs in order to homologate the 432R for the JAF Special GT class, so I think it's fair to say that at least 25 were made. Alan T.

Mike, Thanks for clarifying your intention. Of course, I knew you hadn't forgotten ( you are always very thorough and correct ), but others may well have missed the 'other' prefixes. According to public record in Japan, PS30s of chassis numbers PS30-00001 through PS30-00072 were all made in calendar year 1969 ( not to mention over 950 S30-prefixed cars ) so I think it's fairly certain that many of them went to their first private owners before HLS30-00013 and HLS30-00016 even left Japan on their way to the USA. Cheers, Alan T.

Or perhaps some of us would just like a little less hyperbole, a wider perspective and more accuracy in the reporting. Case in point: The 'Nissan Sport' magazine covering the story of this car has the ( priceless! ) blurb on the front cover - "Earliest Production Z Car Discovered". Er, no..........

GREAT to see a real PS30 outside Japan finally. Tom has great taste, and that looks like a really nice example. Early car too! Mmmmmmm, lovely! :classic: PS30-SB 'Fairlady Z432-R' subject is quite tricky. Final spec on some details ( glovebox, heater etc etc ) was often chosen or altered by the first owner. No two cars it seems were exactly the same. Most important point for me is the difference in gauge of sheetmetal used in production ( roof, rear quarters, door skins, scuttle panel, front wings / fenders etc etc ) which essentially make it completely different from the 'ordinary' PS30 Z432. These cars are world-class when it comes to rarity / 'homologation special' type rank of importance in the manner of Porsche 911T/R for example. Kats, Isn't that Tezuka san's PZR? I believe his Ikeda Bussan seats ( correct for Z432-R ) were recovered at some point in the past. The fabric and vinyl combination in the picture is not OEM. Originals should be 'hopsack' weave wool / acryl blend on the face ( office chair material! ) with black vinyl on the reverse side and headrest. Cheers, Alan T. ( ps - Chris, thanks for the 'endorsement' - but I still consider myself a 'student' of the PZR. You learn something new every day ).

Mike, Don't forget PS30-00009, PS30-00010, PS30-00011 and PS30-00012, as well as S30-00006, S30-00007, S30-00008 etc etc. Anyone talking about "first sold to the public" might be well advised to take them into account. I've seen PS30-00013 in Japan several times ( it was also used in several Japanese magazine road tests in early 1970, so it is quite a 'star' ) and I always think of it when anyone mentions "#13" or "Lucky #13" etc. Of course, if we want to refine it down to "first 240Z sold to the public", then we might be well advised to remember HS30-00003, which could easily be in with a shout......... Alan T.

Aren't the Hayashi Racing-manufactured works Rallye mag replicas ( sold by Nishi san's 'Revive Jalopy' ) only made in Aluminium? And I thought they had all sold out long ago, too? The replicas being advertised on ebay are made from Elektron magnesium ( just like the originals ) and are superbly manufactured. They have also scaled-up the design to make a 15" diameter version - which is a great help with competition tyre choice and is now FIA legal. I have six original works Rallye mags ( one of them was used as the sample for this replica batch ) and six of the 14" replicas in magnesium. I think the replicas are a lot safer to use in anger, and also incorporate a safety bead on both the inner and outer side of the inner rim, whereas the originals only had one. You wouldn't believe how much it costs to get wheels like these into small-run production. I don't think there's very much profit - if any at all - built into the price that is being quoted in the ebay ad. Here's a pic of an original: Alan T.

Thanks Chris. No hurry, as I'm playing in the snow up in Sapporo at the moment.....

Do you happen to know if R L Polk & Co. claim to cover the whole world? They would need to if they were going to make claims about "...all Porsches ever made....", for example. Ｉ bet they don't know about my cars!

The 'Datsun Compe' steering wheels were of course based on the Japanese market steering wheels - which had a different 'dish' compared to the Export versions. The Japanese market turn signal switches had a different angle on them to cope with the different dish of the steering wheels. Just gently bend your turn signal switch stalk to suit.

Ah! Seeds that may grow up to be a fully fledged myth are sown...... Just a couple of days ago I was pedalling furiously on another forum, trying to refute a story that the 'Fairlady Z432' was so-named because it had been conceived in 'Room No.432'.......

They look identical to the sets that were made for some of the 'Ferrari 250 GTO' look-sorta-alike kits based on 240Zs and 260Zs. Some of the kits were made here in the UK, in Poole, Dorset I seem to remember. Near the boat-building industry. The printing on the box looks identical to those. They also had a slight ridge in the section of the chrome moulding ( I guess trying to replicate that of the original 250 GTO ) that genuine Nissan covers did not.. They won't fit a genuine Nissan 'Grande' nose...... Alan T.

Matt, As mentioned before, you would be welcome to come and see the contents of my garages when you want. Should be some good reference material for you there; One car that's completed a body resto ( painted by Fourways too - a nice job ) and one that's just starting out on one ( a totally stripped body on trestles ), plus one that's pretty much 'on the road'. The car on trestles has some similar issues to yours, but is certainly worth saving - and it will be saved. I could come to have a look at yours some time in mid January, if that would be convenient with you. I'm in Japan for the first two weeks of the year, and it's a bit cold and dark here at the moment anyway, isn't it?! By the way, I've looked at the pics you have uploaded and - if it's any consolation - I've seen far, far worse. It's definitely worth saving I think. It can be done. Have faith! Cheers, Alan T.

Curtis Mayfield, Frederic Chopin, Thomas Tallis and Artie Shaw are in my band. I play the triangle..... I really need to have a beer with you if I ever make it over there, Stephen Oops, sorry for the diversion. Better get back into that Cash Cab.....

Ouch! Steven, I'd have hoped that you'd think better of me than that...... As far as I'm concerned ( no disrespect to the B.E.T. guy ) there's only one Robert Johnson. An absolute titan in 20th Century music, and - like so many of his contemporaries - one who died young and largely unrewarded. He might - as legend has it - have sold his soul to the devil in return for his skills, but I'd say it was a good deal. I know that you are a musician, and I'm not. I don't know about you, but for skills equivalent to the like of Robert Johnson's, I'd probably sell my soul to the devil at a crossroads too....... Alan T.

"...according to Wikipedia..." Must be true then! As per my first post on this topic, "Datsun" was not capable of making anything, because 'Datsun' was simply a badge. The manufacturer - the company that made the 240Zs as well as the Fairlady Zs - was Nissan. And the first S30-series Z to be given a chassis number ( and therefore a tangible identity ) was - according to the manufacturer - an 'S30' prefixed 'Fairlady Z', not a '240Z'. But anyway, what a strange question for a quiz... I might have taken the wrong turning somewhere. Shouldn't have asked Robert Johnson for directions...... :paranoid: Alan T.

Fantastic work, Kats. Thank you! Yoshida san's statement ( with his strong words about Goertz ) is going to be very useful for the future. We can be sure that more journalists will make the same "designed by Goertz" mistake we have read so many times, so the more first-hand quotes from the real people concerned the better. Nice too to see Kimura san once again stating that he had almost finalised the CSP311's styling before Goertz became involved, and Yoshida san confirm that he worked on the CSP311's interior. Nostalgic Hero magazine published Kimura san's side of the story some years ago, but few non-Japanese journalists got the message..... Carl, Speaking only for myself, I have always been amazed that Goertz had the brass neck to accept the plaudits for the styling of the S30-series Z when he must have known that not a single line, and not a single detail on it was from his pen. As an experienced stylist ( even calling him a 'designer' is a little tenuous ) with an educated eye, he must surely have known beyond all shadow of doubt that the Z was not his. His later story ( the "they designed it, but I showed them how" version ) pretty much acknowledges this, I believe. I can't imagine that he really did believe that the Z was related in any way to his 'designs', but he may very well have believed that he deserved some kind of recognition for the time he spent at Nissan ( and Yamaha ). Goertz was a very complex and wily individual, and certainly knew how to turn situations to his own advantage. He exploited the fact that Japanese company staff were not going to be seeking any limelight in that period, and he exploited the - very real - language gap which meant that the truth about his real work in Japan was obscured. I'm convinced that Goertz believed he had been contracted by Nissan as a stylist / designer, and that he would be styling and designing when he was there. In actual fact, he seems to have spent most of his time there ( a total measured in weeks, let's not forget ) demonstrating the latest methods in 3D modelling and clays, and making slight changes to the work of others. The styling projects he was involved in did not come to mainstream production, so he felt - some time down the line - that he needed to rescue something out of it all for himself. Associating himself with the S30-series Z did just that. Job done. I don't know why everybody is usually so polite about Goertz. I think he knew what he was doing, and had plenty of opportunities to give credit where credit was most certainly due. He didn't, and that's why I don't respect him. Alan T.

Kats, I'd prefer to see the whole document, and make a better - and more measured - attempt at an interpretation, without losing the feeling of what Tamura san wrote. These tasters are great, but maybe we can discuss this in depth after you have met Tamura san and Yoshida san on 31st? It would be nice to get more of the context behind the whole story. I'm mindful that we could be getting a little too excited here. If we perceive any conflicting details in the personal stories of The Team ( and we should be in no doubt that this whole thing was a team effort ) then I think our job - as enthusiastic outsiders - is to steady the boat and take the broader view. If some of the players in the story have particular allegiances and differing loyalties, then we should try to see the situation from their perspectives too. I don't want us to be responsible for marginalising any of the players, or reigniting old flames of conflict. All of these guys are heroes to me. I want to hear all of their stories. I think the 'truth' will lie somewhere in the middle of all of their stories, and I'm certainly not forgetting the engineers ( like Uemura, Benitani and Kamahara ). Let's give them all the benefit of the doubt. Eventually, we will know the 'truth' when we see it One thing that comes through from Tamura san's story so far ( thank you Kats! ) is the feeling that the design soon took on a life of it's own. All the effort, energy, dreams and hopes invested in it took hold, and it became bigger than all of them both as individuals and as a team. I think man's great creations that 'work' can do that. It's some kind of extra supernatural magic. Like capturing lightning in a bottle..... Alan T.

Carl, Thanks for that. But your own 'History Time Line' on zhome.com states that "The 240-Z goes on sale in the U.S. on October 22, 1969." That date can only relate to the 'event' at the Pierre Hotel in New York, surely? Did they actually have a car present? If so, what car was it ( was it one of the 'Kaku-U' North American Test cars? )? Who was present? Were the general public invited? Has anybody ever seen any photos of the event? I know I haven't. The whole thing sounds rather low key to me, and certainly at odds with the 'Made for the USA' fanfares that would follow the HLS30U's press in the USA. With Nissan's Japan press preview having taken place in Ginza on 18th October, and the Tokyo Auto Show opening its doors on 24th October, I think the date of 22nd October is very interesting too. It makes me wonder whether Katayama felt his thunder was being stolen somewhat, and made some hasty arrangements.... ? Here's a picture that was credited with being taken at the 1970 'New York Automobile Show'. Our old 'friend' Albrecht Goertz is notable in his presence next to the car ( like it's any of his business ) and present too was Larry Shinoda of GM. What was the actual date of the 1970 NY show? Did it actually take place in 1969, or early in 1970? Try as I might, I can't find much mention of it. Alan T.