Mike B Posted October 13, 2012 Share #97 Posted October 13, 2012 Redzedsled,Can you post some pictures of the 'English jute' that you have? I believe the company in Vancouver sells the light tan colored jute (similar to what Kats used), but as you said, they don't like to deal directly with the public. Other places online sell a similar tan jute and I was wondering if some type of coating could be applied to more closely match the original, but it sounds like the type you have found is a better match as is. I'm curious to see what it looks like.-Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26th-Z Posted October 13, 2012 Share #98 Posted October 13, 2012 Yea, me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzedsled Posted October 13, 2012 Share #99 Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) See pics... Here is the source... judge for yourself! Rob http://www.carcarpets.co.uk/underfelt-11-c.asp Another source for you... http://www.macgregorukcarparts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=min-c-8&Category_Code=MINI-cockpit Edited October 13, 2012 by redzedsled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted October 13, 2012 Share #100 Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) Thanks the the photos and info; it looks great. All the original 240Z jute I have seen has been the same uniform dark brown color, so maybe what Nissan used originally was completely dipped and not just coated on one side? Regardless, you only see one side once it is in place, and only under the seats, or if you lift the carpet up, so what you have found would work fine. What is the thickness of the English jute?I just did an internet search, but only saw that type of jute listed by the place in Vancouver (Heritage trim) and by Zeddsaver. However, someone I know ordered jute from Zeddsaver and what he received was actually a couple of different types of material, none of which was the coated English jute that he describes on his site (same as your description) and none was cut to original patterns.-Mike Edited October 13, 2012 by Mike B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzedsled Posted October 13, 2012 Share #101 Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) That is a very fair observation, perhaps I should recant my previous statement of "exactly the same" and replace it with "very similair to". It is in my opinion that the jute, being a natural product, most likely would succumb to aging, especially when moisture is introduced. Thus the color over time would change with it. I could be wrong but jute is jute, and after forty years of abuse, it is likely to brown out. The "black latex" is more of a dark charcoal color with the color underneath being tan to light brown. This particular needle-punched jute undercoating came direct from the English source I provided, so yeah you are right there is a difference. Heritage Trim is the company that is reluctant to deal with the general public. I would recommend getting a sample sent to you from the English source, Coverdale, and be the judge for yourself. It is definitely thinner than the original 240Z jute, but can vary in thickness from 1/4" to 1/2". Zeddsaver at one time used to have this English jute brought in from the same source, but perhaps he has found another local source, i.e. Heritage Trim. Even though no one will see the jute, it still has an important role to play in the comfort of driving your car.Another thought on the darker original color could be that the early jute was impregnated with Bitumen. From what I have researched, Bitumen was commonly used to coat jute in its day as well. Perhaps the Bitumen coating wass a fire hazard thus they moved to Latex, I'm not sure. It seems all the English jute that is available now has the black latex coating. Also, jute is a broad term, and therefor there could be a darker source material that Nissan used, perhaps it might have even been horse hair. Horse hair has a much darker appearance and was used in the old antique cars in its day. All theory, but take it for what it's worth! Edited October 13, 2012 by redzedsled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted October 13, 2012 Share #102 Posted October 13, 2012 I guess it is possible that the jute Nissan used was originally tan and then changed to a dark brown over time, but if that was the case I would think you would still see some of it that was a ligher tan color. I have a 40k mile 1972 with near perfect original jute and carpet and it is the same dark brown on both sides. Anyway, thanks again for the sources. I will give one a try. The person I mentioned earlier ended up getting some of the uncoated tan jute from a place called 'Re-Originals' http://reoriginals.com/jutepaddingoriginalitalianstyleabout12-13mm-u0083.aspx It's very nice, but is only 1/4", so he ended up doubling up on it to get similar to the original thickness. I'm not sure what happened to Zeddsaver, but like I said, the low quality jute that the person I know recently received was nothing like the English jute he advertises and was no where near the original jute patterns, as compared to the original pieces that I have from several cars.-Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzedsled Posted October 13, 2012 Share #103 Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) I think it is very difficult to have patterns made. There were many variances to the patterns from the factory between the early 1970-71 cars and the later 72-73 models. There would be too many patterns to satisfy all owners from all model years. Plus it is very difficult to cut. I bought an old original set from Ebay and reproduced them for my own car and was very happy with the end result. I even made the jute pad for behind the luggage riser trim that you see in the Microfiche, but most likely have never seen in an actual 240Z. The English jute averages at about 3/8" thick, whereas the original jute was at least 1/2" to 9/16" in thickness. See original jute for reference... Edited October 13, 2012 by redzedsled 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted October 13, 2012 Share #104 Posted October 13, 2012 I agree there are variances in the carpet and jute patterns, but not that many. Fortunately I have several sets from my cars and cars I have parted out, so I have pieces to use as patterns. I'm not sure what piece you are referring to as 'behind the luggage riser trim". Which number is it in the attached pages from a Nov 69 US parts catalog? -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzedsled Posted October 13, 2012 Share #105 Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) Refer to Section 113-4 of your fiche. Item No 15, part number 74922-E4100. As far as variance goes, keep in mind that the transmission tunnel changed, the pieces that go behind the seat (70-71) were much different. Also the front carpet jute would have changed over the years whatwith the position of different carpet clamping methods. Also the rear cargo area changed as a result of the tool doors being moved to the hatch area. The jute on a 70-71 goes all the way up to the luggage riser trim, and the later cars are shorter as not to cover the tool doors. I've got both early 71 and 73 patterns and I see a broad variance. See images below... If you would like a PDF pattern file of the proper contour of an early 69-71 for behind the seats, PM me and I will send it to you... Edited October 13, 2012 by redzedsled 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck r Posted October 14, 2012 Share #106 Posted October 14, 2012 Hi Redzedsled and Mike and thanks for the info and discussion. At this point, I've already cut and fit the jute using the material supplied from ReOriginals. I was pretty happy with how closely it matched the original in texture although it was more of a tan color that matched Kats photos than what apprears to be the original brown color. It did not have a coating on either side.For what its worth, my car (June '70) had a couple pieces of the original jute. It seems to match the patterns on the upper left. The different pattern (under seat and tool box area) from earlier Series 1 cars seems to be the beginning of the rear seat mount support running laterally from the tunnel to rocker. I think Nissan started using this somewhere around March/April of '70????Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ-240z Posted October 14, 2012 Share #107 Posted October 14, 2012 Refer to Section 113-4 of your fiche. Item No 15, part number 74922-E4100. The jute on a 70-71 goes all the way up to the luggage riser trim, and the later cars are shorter as not to cover the tool doors. I've got both early 71 and 73 patterns and I see a broad variance. See images below...QUOTE] Hello redzedsled. I was able to source some of the natural fiber jute that you have pictured. When I made my pattern for the rear deck jute, I used the original rear deck jute from a friends original, unrestored car. His rear deck jute actually did not extend to the luggage riser trim. It came within 2" of the trim so that the forward luggage strap bracket holes were exposed. The stock machine screws for those strap brackets were too short to have been able to penetrate both the bracket, carpet, and jute when secured to the floor. I am, of course, talking about a series 1 car with the tool bins on the forward side of the luggage riser panel. I also don't believe, even given your reference to the above parts catalogue, that, at least on series 1 cars, jute was used under the diamond vinyl on the front face of the luggage riser panel. If it were, it would have almost totally covered the little securing tabs that extend from the front of the riser panel used to secure the plastic tool bin covers. These are just my own researched observations and conclusions, but there certainly were a number of variations on early and later series 1 cars. FWIW Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redzedsled Posted October 14, 2012 Share #108 Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) Very noteworthy observations, Dan. I have never seen jute behind the diamond vinyl luggage trim before either, but it is in the fiche. I was pointing it out as more of oddity than anything else. I had some left over jute so I decided to cut the pattern anyways. I have not actually tried to fit it yet, so I am not sure if the small screws obscure the fit as you mentioned. I cut this jute for this pattern just shy of the plastic trim that secures the vinyl to the body, so the screws would not effect the fitment. When I go to fit this piece I will let you all know how it looks. The length of the rear cargo jute pad is very important, mine was ripped towards the front of this pattern, so I coud not confirm the actual length, but I knew it was longer than that of later Z cars with the tool box in the back. So thanks very much for that confirmation. Regards, Rob Edited October 14, 2012 by redzedsled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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