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Putting in a replacement L-28


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15 hours ago, Av8ferg said:


Chas, very nice and I almost went that route. After talking to Sean at Zstory he really seemed to be someone you can trust and if you have issues he’s going to help resolve it. I’ll hang everything tomorrow and then take exact measurements from the dual down pipe to his V-band connector. He threw in two extra V-band connectors and clamps for me. I’ll buy a dual 2” to 2.5” merge pipe and have it bent right and weld the v-band to the 2.5” side and hopefully it will work. I didn’t want to spend the money initially for his header before I saw if I could make my header work and I think I can. I like challenges....I make me better at solving problems. This car is one challenge after another, I should be a genius by now emoji23.png.


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If you can find a y pipe from 2” to 2.5”, it would be the perfect solution.
 

Otherwise your best bet will be to find a competent fabricator who can build up a y connection that slip fits onto the header, then has the outlet at 2.5”, using mandrel bent pipe, in stainless. Also, using a tig welder will produce better welds than using a mig, and a stick should not be used at all.

The mandrel bent pieces can be had from several exhaust specialty supply houses. There is one out in Utah, can’t recall the name at the moment.


Using non mandrel bent pipe will dramatically reduce the flow, so it is important to use mandrel bent pipe.

 

 

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Plait, got the exhaust mocked up, so I could figure out the extension to need. Good news is my header came with ~ 30” Y pipe, and that length and beds are perfect to mate of to the Zstory exhaust. So I’m going to the muffler shop and see if I can have them fabricate an identical pipe that 2.5” instead of 2” secondary pipe. See pics below.

The “S” pipe is slightly touching the bolt on the control arm but otherwise it’s a good fit. Green circle on the last pic is my 2” extension pipe off the header.

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Jim, This is a good idea. The only problem is now I have a chokepoint between the collectors off the header and the exhaust line I purchased. I’d be going from 2 inch collectors, run 24” downstream with a 2” and pipe and then meet 2 1/2 inch pipe. I still need someone to weld the v-band on the pipe too.


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Put them at the header, not downstream.   I did that with the stock manifold until he gets the 280 downpipe available.  My car can't tell the difference... LOL

Okay, I’m a little confused. If I put two of those on my header I still need a 2.5” Y pipe and a 24” pipe 2.5” in diameter to meet up with his resonator? It’s a good idea, but still need a welder and a guy to make the correct bends. Waiting on a quote now.


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Put them at the header, not downstream.   I did that with the stock manifold until he gets the 280 downpipe available.  My car can't tell the difference... LOL

Jim,
Thanks I think I got a game plan now. I order the 2.5” to 2” stainless pipe adapter from Amazon that you sent. I called a shop and for $40 they’re going to weld the V-Band connector to the 2.5” side of that adapter. I can the use slip joints on the rest of the fitting and we should be rolling.

Of note Sean said it will be early January before the headers are available. I’m going to see how this works before spending the money on his new headers.

Anyone who understands the dark science of exhaust system might be able to comment about going from 2 to 2.5 inches. I guess it would be preferred if I was 2.5” diameter pipe all the back from the header collectors to the muffler instead of having this 28” piece at 2” pipe that I’m using that came with my header which eventually grows to 2.5” once it meets the ZStory stuff.

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Is the Y pipe at the top of your picture a piece that came with and is part of your non Zstory headers?   I don't see the v band flange, so it must be.

I assumed you received that piece from Zstory as part of the exhaust line shipment, but if not, looks like it only comes with the headers.   This is why I suggested 2 of the increasers to go one Y end at the headers... 

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Is the Y pipe at the top of your picture a piece that came with and is part of your non Zstory headers?   I don't see the v band flange, so it must be.
I assumed you received that piece from Zstory as part of the exhaust line shipment, but if not, looks like it only comes with the headers.   This is why I suggested 2 of the increasers to go one Y end at the headers... 
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No that Y pipe came with my current headers. It doesn’t have a vband connect just a straight 2” dia pipe.
The vband is on his resonator pipe. So I need to fab that reducer with a vband to connect to his resonator


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Is the Y pipe at the top of your picture a piece that came with and is part of your non Zstory headers?   I don't see the v band flange, so it must be.
I assumed you received that piece from Zstory as part of the exhaust line shipment, but if not, looks like it only comes with the headers.   This is why I suggested 2 of the increasers to go one Y end at the headers... 
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That Y pipe already slides over my header collectors, I don’t need any adaptors there just 2 clamps to lock them down. The adaptor is for the other end of the Y pipe. Since the resonator is 2.5” and that Y pipe is only 2”.


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I think Jim is suggesting building a new 2½" y pipe and using two of the adapters at the header for transitions to the new y pipe

I investigated that approach today. Went to two different shops today both said they don’t have and cannot bend stainless. Something about its hardness and tendency to crack when bending. Both could do something out of regular steel pipe but want the car there to do the work. Both say their booked for the next 3 weeks and both charge $115/hr so with parts and labor going to be $350. That’s almost half the cost of a Zstory’s header that I could order and get in Jan that will bolt up to everything. I’m going to trying this new idea. Parts and labor will be around $80 and if I don’t like it I can still run the car until Sean’s headers come in.

I used to have welders that worked for me in the squadron. These guys could weld titanium, stainless, aluminum....
If I were still in I’d have this all buttoned up by now, for two pizzas.

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Finally got the exhaust mostly installed.   I still have some minor tweaks with hangars and I’ll be finished.  Spent a couple hours today hunting down someone who could weld stainless steel.   It began as a wild goose chase but finally found a guy.   Charged me $40 to weld the V-band fitting to the pipe 2”-2’5” adaptor.   
Came out good and I got it all bolted up and the system sounded great. Will post a video tomorrow, once I’m done so people can hear the Z-Story classic muffler on a EFI L28.  
 

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10 hours ago, Av8ferg said:

someone who could weld stainless steel

I never had to weld it but i can imagine that i can weld it with my aluminium welding mig? (the right gas (Argon)) Just put in some stainless wire? 

Oh btw.. that clamp right behind your pre muffler .. give it a turn your scalp will be thankful  😉  

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The only stainless I've welded was in the shipyards on one of the Army Corps of Engineers dredges using stick welding rod. I found it to be fairly easy to produce a good weld. I think MIG would be easier than stick. I also found the stainless rod works well on cast iron probably because of the high nickel content.

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On 7/19/2021 at 12:48 PM, heyitsrama said:

To my understanding a smaller diameter clutch will bite/engage harder because of the reduced surface area and mass. With the larger clutch you retain the engaging characteristics to be closer to "OEM" yet are able to get the benefit of a lighter flywheel (better throttle response).

I'm quite happy with the setup. perhaps others can chime in....

That is amazing! I really wanted to lighten the flywheel, but I am a new manual driver and was worried about lightening affecting drive ability. But if it’s similar to OEM, that is perfect!

Edit: apologies, was on mobile and did not realize this post is 15 pages long. Sorry for replying to an old post. 

Edited by Muzez
I am an idiot
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That is amazing! I really wanted to lighten the flywheel, but I am a new manual driver and was worried about lightening affecting drive ability. But if it’s similar to OEM, that is perfect!

Edit: apologies, was on mobile and did not realize this post is 15 pages long. Sorry for replying to an old post. 

No problem, it’s been a long process. Drove the car around the neighborhood today, the light flywheel takes a little getting used to but only in first gear, otherwise its fine. I’ve been driving manual trans my whole driving life, it’s like second nature, so I don’t find it difficult at all.


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I thought about starting a new thread and call it my 280z build, since I’ve successfully got the engine in and operating.   I’ve got new challenges ahead unrelated to the engine so let me know if should start a new thread.   
Yesterday I began to tackle the interior.  This car doesn’t have any rust issues I’ve discovered except for the passenger floor board.   The floor board has 5 small areas where there are holes.  I’ll post pics below.   I really can’t tackle the interior until I get over this speed bump so I wanted to get advice from guys on here that have done rust repair.   I have 3 possible ways forward the way I see it.  A few things I need to share is that other than these holes, I can’t find any more rust and the floor is solid otherwise. I chipped away the sound proofing until I found clean metal around each hole.  I did this a few months ago and put some POR-15 down to arrest any further rusting until I could get to this.  Posting pics pre and post POR-15 so you can have a better view of how they looked.  

1. pay the guy that welded my exhaust pipe to weld in the patches.  Larges patch would be 3”x4”. He can do it Friday but hasn’t seen the job in person.  
2. buy a welder and learn how to weld and do it myself.  (Learn a new skill)

3. Buy a full passenger side floor board and have a body shop to the job.  
 

Since these aren’t flat areas, not sure how that is done and one areaI think you can see fuel lines below the hole.  
 

Take a look. Also have a pic of the vinyl I’m putting in.  I did the driver’s interior rocker yesterday. 
 


 

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Thanks Jim,  I agree on the patch work,   Just don’t want a hack job.  It doesn’t need to be pretty but in need to be done right.  That fuel line scares me.   I’ve always wanted to learn to weld and have 2x 220v 30 amp plugs in my garage,  I’ll sleep on it after more advice.
 

The diamond stitch vinyl I picked up on Amazon.  Quality it’s pretty good, and it’s not expensive either.   I’m going to build a template out of a thin cheap U-haul moving blanket (not those heavy moving blankets)  I have laying around,  it the perfect material for a template and it cuts really easy.  Once I’m done I’m happy to share the template with people on here.  Here the link to the vinyl. 
 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CR15YLK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

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On 11/9/2021 at 1:49 PM, Av8ferg said:

BTW, I’m not happy with MSA right now. I called today to ask them where my heater and Rad hoses are. They haven’t mailed them because some little other item in my basket was back ordered so they decided to sit on all the other parts. It’s been 4 weeks since I made the order and they didn’t even email to tell me what was going on. That’s really all I’m waiting for. Apparently the hoses are being mailed tomorrow.

 

On 11/10/2021 at 4:55 AM, Av8ferg said:

So, I’ve mostly had a good experience with them.  The reality is I’ve has some issues with all the Z retailers.  Zcardepot sent my the wrong tie rod and it was a pain to get them to sent me a replacement.  They wanted pictures and multiple detailed explanations.  I finally sent them a video showing the treads were for the wrong side, the whole process took over 3 weeks.   Then they asked me to send it back on my dime.  I never did and won’t.  Anyone need a drivers side tie rod 😁.

I just want MSA to update their website to show things that back ordered or send you and email and ask how you want to proceed.  It’s simple, be now we are living in a world where the customer is no longer as valuable as the past.  You are almost a nuisance to some.  It’s hard to find quality people.   This is the new paradigm we have to live with.  I see it everywhere I go.  Prices are insane everywhere., workers are worse than ever…the sky is falling 🤣 

 

On 11/10/2021 at 4:36 PM, Av8ferg said:

In MSAs defense they are the best overall place to buy Z parts, in my opinion.  They actually answer the phone, are very friendly and willing to answer questions.  It’s hard to be good all they time,  I’m just frustrated because I was just left in the dark for about 26 days, waiting on a part to be coated.  A part I could do without but not the other stuff.  
Oh and try calling zcardepot….they never pick up, you get voicemail and it can take days for a email reply.   Both places have a good selection of parts and competitive prices.  I default to MSA because I can talk to a human if I have a question and they’ve all been super nice.  

 

Sorry to respond so late, and muddy the current thread discussion. Things have been quite overwhelming here, we're trying to dig out. First of all, nice job on the Z so far, and it sounds great!

Thank you for your patience with us. The email issues have affected many companies. Places like Yahoo flag a domain as spam, with no explanation, and no recourse. We did send you an email on October 13th (that obviously went to spam or disappeared into cyber-oblivion), that the intake and boot were delayed from the manufacturers, and that we would ship it all together when all items arrived.

So our apologies as we should have followed up with you when we didn't see an email reply. Sorry about that. It is definitely something Greg is working on as we get new sales team members up to speed, and hopefully (soon) find a few more, so they aren't overwhelmed all day long. We have also recently been trying to call, in addition to sending emails, which can be tricky as many don't want to be bothered with phone calls.

Unfortunately we're still waiting for the other items you ordered. Just call our sales team anytime for the latest we've heard from the manufacturers (side note: Your most recent order left yesterday, just in case you're not getting the tracking emails either. If you didn't, if you can help us out, please check your spam folder and let me know if our emails aren't in there).

As far as successfully getting out of our old systems and into new ones where inventory can be shown, that has been the most difficult of all, a long story, and that one is on me. I will say that we have what we hope is a great new company working on things now, and are very hopeful that they can get it all figured out relatively soon.

Thank you for all of your orders, kind words, and for having mercy on us.

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On 11/10/2021 at 4:16 AM, Racer X said:

I have a love/hate relationship with MSA.

Many years ago I ordered crankshaft and rod bearings. They were shipped loose in a box of packing peanuts. When they arrived every bearing shell had damage. I contacted them and they were incredulous, even told me it would be OK to install them and run them.

So I sent them back, paying shipping both ways.

 

Fast forward to early this year.

Started getting my 72 back into driving condition. Ordered a bunch of stuff, clutch, clutch cover, thermostat and housing, cam cover gaskets, head gaskets, and a dozen other items. 
 

Like you, the order was delayed, with no communications. I called them, they said they sent an email. Never got one. Turns out there is some problem with their email that they can’t work out, and other customers also have had that problem.

So they said there were some items on my order that were on back order. I asked that they send what they had and send the rest later. 
 

The head gaskets and cam cover gaskets showed up, packed loosely with the heavy clutch and pressure plate. The gaskets were destroyed from the clutch cover bouncing around in the box. They sent it FedEx Ground, an 800 mile trip, from LA to Seattle, that actually had the package go through Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Boise, Portland then Seattle.

Took two weeks,

The gaskets were destroyed. The box had the beginning of a hole in it from the clutch cover, and was one toss away from being ripped open.

To their credit, they sent replacement gaskets, no charge.

A month or so later the pan gaskets and a harmonic balancer arrived. They had wrapped the pan gaskets around the box the balancer was in, rather than packing the gaskets in a flat package. Again, the gaskets are not in good shape.

I give up on them. Don’t care if they have all the Z stuff, and good prices.

They do have a guy who is a member here, maybe you can reach out to him.

Or not.

Sorry for taking so long to respond. There is no excuse for what you've reported, all we can offer is our apologies.

Getting quality shipping staff has been a struggle for many years. Unfortunately, the pandemic has only made it worse. We're training a new person now, and hope such packing errors are a thing of the past. With millions of possible combinations of parts, training is a long term effort. None of this helps or excuses what we did to you of course, and what you've described should be simple common sense, but it is something we continue to work on.

As far as the email contact, I can see the email that we did send on June 15th, in the (failed) attempt to let you know about the 2 items that we hadn't received. If you do ever choose to give us another chance in the future, when you don't see an order confirmation email in your inbox or spam folder, after you place your order, please let us know.

As far as the older order you mentioned, your account we have now only goes back to 2020, so we assume we had you at a different address before, and duped your account by accident. If you're willing to help me find that order, please pm me.

Sorry again for the inexcusable shipping problems, and thanks for all the orders you've made. Hopefully we'll get a shot to help you in the future.

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On 11/10/2021 at 7:57 AM, Zed Head said:

Hope you guys don't mind, I'm going to "at" the MSA guys and ZCD.  ZCD never responds but I think that he does read the posts.  The guys at MSA usually respond, and seem to address issues.  The penny-saving on shipping seems like a new one though.

 

On 11/10/2021 at 5:31 PM, Zed Head said:

The main reason I let them know is so that they don't have a problem that goes on for months or years, damaging their business, because they did not know about it.  They've been around since land lines but things are changing.  Trying to help them keep up.

 

 

Zed, as far as we're concerned, we always appreciate you looping us in. Thank you for doing so.

We'll always try to come up with the best option as far as shipping and delayed items are concerned. With all the supplier issues it has been much more prevalent and difficult than usual these past two years. On more orders than people might think, where we've screwed up and had to reship something, we often end up losing money on those orders. It is part of doing business, but Greg is working hard, every day, to get parts here from literally all over the world to ship out, and we're working on making certain everybody knows all of their shipping options.

Thanks again for alerting us. As a side note, James is unfortunately no longer with the company, I'll be asking Mike to remove that account to alleviate confusion.

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