240z VIN

[DC871F]

21 hours ago, Carl Beck said:

There were two different groups of VIN's for Datsun 240Z's produced in 1969. One for the Left Hand Drive models and another for the Right Hand Drive Models; HLS30 and HS30. Both had their own series of chassis serial numbers. Because all new cars offered for sale in the USA were required by Federal Law to have their Date Of Manufacture (DOM) affixed to the car;  the Left Hand Drive HLS30's produced in 1969 can be individually identified if their original DOM Data Tags are still on them.

It would seem that some 543 240Z'z were completed in 1969. Best guess is that 2 or 3 of them were HS30's with the remainder being HLS30's. The first 13 HLS30's were not sold to the public. Because the units were not completed in perfect serial number order, there are a few with VIN's higher than #543, that were also completed in 1969. (as shown above with #587 being completed in 12/69)

http://zhome.com/History/69ZArticle.html

FWIW,

Carl B.

I just realized YOU ARE THE AUTHOR! 

Lol.

Can I have your autograph?

So, I can ask you directly. VIN 1776, is it HLS?

Thanks so much for you guys who have such insight.

[Carl Beck]

42 minutes ago, DC871F said:

I just realized YOU ARE THE AUTHOR! 

Lol.

Can I have your autograph?

So, I can ask you directly. VIN 1776, is it HLS?

Thanks so much for you guys who have such insight.

 Yes - #1776 in that list -  is an HLS30.  We have not found any HS30's produced in 1969 still in existence. HS30 00004 was sold in Australia, based on its original engine serial number and the Australian Compliance Tag on the Z - its owner at the time and I believe it was produced in early 1970. 

FWIW,

Carl B.

[DC871F]

35 minutes ago, Carl Beck said:

 Yes - #1776 in that list -  is an HLS30.  We have not found any HS30's produced in 1969 still in existence. HS30 00004 was sold in Australia, based on its original engine serial number and the Australian Compliance Tag on the Z - its owner at the time and I believe it was produced in early 1970. 

FWIW,

Carl B.

So anything below 1776 on the HLS side of things (on this list) is a 69 production car?

EDIT: Re-reading your articles, I see the note you added, about being hectic at the factory. But I'll still leave my question intact above, which I'm guessing that really means no that 1776 and below are not all 69's.

Thanks.

Edited December 20, 2020 by DC871F

[Carl Beck]

#1776 had a Date of Manufacture data tag stamped 12/69. So it is a 69 Production Year example. As are all the specific individuals on that list.

 

Correct, not all VIN's below #1776 and above #00500 were 69 Production Year examples - only the specific individual examples on that list have been found to be 69 production year examples at this point.

Carl B.

 

[HS30-H]

9 hours ago, Carl Beck said:

#1776 had a Date of Manufacture data tag stamped 12/69. So it is a 69 Production Year example. As are all the specific individuals on that list.

So how does HLS30-01776 make any sense as a 12/69 production dated entity? How can it be explained? Taken at face value, it makes a mockery of any 12/69 production dated door tags on the cars HLS30-00540 and up. Clearly door tags were being stamped and attached after the fact.

 

Looking back at the zhome.com page where this topic is discussed, it is possible to see some more evidence of the illogical habit not only of painting 1969 production-dated Fairlady Z, Fairlady Z-L, Fairlady Z432 and Fairlady Z 432-R models out of the story, but also of painting HS30-prefixed cars out of Nissan Shatai's early production figures. Here's an example:

 

 

So that's HLS30-00001, HLS30-00002 and HLS30-00003 cited as "the first pre-production prototype" Datsun 240Zs, whilst Nissan Shatai's own production data states the following:

May 1969 - total 2 cars - one domestic, one export:
1 = S30-00001 (Factory prototype 1)
2 = HLS30-00001 (Factory prototype 2)

June 1969 - total 1 car - domestic:
3 = PS30-00001 (Factory prototype 3)

July 1969 - total 4 cars - two domestic, two export:
4 = HLS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 1)
5 = S30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 2)
6 = PS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 3)
7 = HS30-00001 (Primary Production prototype 4)

August 1969 - total 7 cars:
8 = S30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 5)
9 = S30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 6)
10 = S30-00005 (Primary Production prototype 7)
11 = PS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 😎
12 = HLS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 9)
13 = S30-00006 (Primary Production prototype 10)
14 = PS30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 11)

 

...so not only ignoring the S30 and PS30-prefixed cars (which are UNDENIABLY an important part of the concept, design, engineering and production processes) but also managing to somehow let HS30-00001 slip through the net in favour of HLS30-00003. Whoops. 

Why do this? 

[240260280]

1969 production figures from @kats

 

The one in August and one in September were most likely HLS30-00004 & 5 used as test mules (un-badged) in North America (unless they started at HLS30-00000).

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by 240260280

[Namerow]

Last photo is a great illustration of why the defrost grid was switched from vertical to horizontal wires.

In the photos taken during testing in Banff National Park, I had not noticed previously that the cars were fitted with winter tires on both the rear and the front wheels.  I would imagine that this was planned beforehand and copied from European rally practice.  Although from some angles the tires look like old-fashioned 'snow tires', I suspect that they were a Euro-spec 'winter' type  (not easy to buy over-the-counter in North America in the 1960's).

[240260280]

Great observation!  Probably similar going on in Sapporo Japan to prepare for Euro Rallies Q1 1970?.

Edited December 21, 2020 by 240260280

[HS30-H]

2 hours ago, Namerow said:

In the photos taken during testing in Banff National Park, I had not noticed previously that the cars were fitted with winter tires on both the rear and the front wheels.  I would imagine that this was planned beforehand and copied from European rally practice.  Although from some angles the tires look like old-fashioned 'snow tires', I suspect that they were a Euro-spec 'winter' type  (not easy to buy over-the-counter in North America in the 1960's).

Isn't it more likely that the previous USA & Canada 'Kaku U' testing expedition for the 510 - in late 1967 - informed them of what would be necessary that far north?

Nissan already had plenty of experience in snow rallies through the 1960s, and in certain regions of Japan - especially Tohoku and Hokkaido - serious snow is a certainty every winter. Dedicated snow tyres, chains and studs would not have been a particular novelty for them.

I would think it likely that they arranged for their own Japanese snow tyres to be ready for them in particular locations during the 'Kaku U' expedition planning?

[Carl Beck]

2 hours ago, 240260280 said:

1969 production figures from @kats

 

The two in September were most likely HLS30-00005 & 6 used as test mules (un-badged) in North America.

When we discussed this earlier - Kats and I believed that the North American Test 240Z's were #4 from Aug.  and #5 from Sep. One with A/T and the other with 4spd.

#6 from Sep. and #7 and #8 from Oct were used for the New Car Shows in North America & Press Relations. 

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

2 hours ago, Namerow said:

Last photo is a great illustration of why the defrost grid was switched from vertical to horizontal wires.

In the photos taken during testing in Banff National Park, I had not noticed previously that the cars were fitted with winter tires on both the rear and the front wheels.  I would imagine that this was planned beforehand and copied from European rally practice.  Although from some angles the tires look like old-fashioned 'snow tires', I suspect that they were a Euro-spec 'winter' type  (not easy to buy over-the-counter in North America in the 1960's).

Having lived in Spokane, Washington 1969-73 I can assure you it was common practice to run 4 Snow Tires (usually with ice studs) in the Winter months, especially on light weight sports cars. Snow Tires or Tire Chains (on all 4 wheels) were required, if you were to be allowed in any of several mountain passes in Eastern or Western Washington during the winter months. Among sports car enthusiast Pirelli and Semperit winter tires were most popular and broadly available in town. Of course Michelin had great winter tires, but usually their cost was significantly higher.

[240260280]

1 hour ago, Carl Beck said:

When we discussed this earlier - Kats and I believed that the North American Test 240Z's were #4 from Aug.  and #5 from Sep. One with A/T and the other with 4spd.

#6 from Sep. and #7 and #8 from Oct were used for the New Car Shows in North America & Press Relations. 

FWIW,

Carl B.

Opps, you are correct,  Typing toofast and too early #6 was bob's greenie.