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Cooper260z

Are all mustache bar bushings the same?

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Quick question. I have a mustache bar that I believe to be for an r200. My car doesn’t have an r200, i have no need for this bar at this time, but I do want the new bushings that this bar has and I’m pretty sure that their the two piece style so they should be able to be pulled out. So the question is, is the diameter of the bushing slot the same as the bar in my stock 260z? (r180)

 

I think they’re the same, I’d just like to confirm before I take the rear end apart (again) that I will be able to put these bushings in the 260z mustache bar. 

B7CCC7F6-CBE0-44C2-96DC-68C1D5335D3F.jpeg

4B3399E3-CAC4-48C8-B57D-7C2D6855A7DD.jpeg

0D867308-8EA0-4CE0-8E00-C0EBA27AE0AE.jpeg

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https://www.energysuspensionparts.com/7.1102

Those look like energy suspension bushings, it says that they are interchangeable on their website.

For the OEM bushings http://www.carpartsmanual.com/datsun/Z-1969-1978/axle/rear-suspension

Don't forget to inspect/replace the diff strap.  🙂

https://technoversions.com/DiffMountHome.html

Edited by heyitsrama

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They will fit, but you may want to consider the pros and cons first. If you change to these PU bushing the diff noise will be more noticable in the car. It will also transfer the vibrations in the driveline tothe body a lot more.

The originals are no longer available, so if they are worn and loose, you will need to replace them and these will fit fine.

If you do. Remove the old rubber by heating around the outside of the mustache bar and use a pair of vice grip to twist the centre piece of the original rubber bush. When the heat works its way through, the bush will let go and twist out. You DO NOT need to heat the bar red hot. Don't heat the centre metal tube in the rubber bush. Just keep warming the outside while twisting until the bush lets go of the outer housing. If you do it this way you will have minimum toxic fumes.

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Currently the car has a fair amount of noise from the rear end when driving, most notably but not limited to when starting from a stop. Since I have these bushings I was thinking of seeing if that would fix the rear end noise since I don’t have the budget to replace the diff mount and strap yet. 
 

That diff strap alternative (if I’m understanding it correctly) is pretty interesting. I’ll keep that in mind when I’m ready to replace those, thank you 

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You might not need to replace those bushings yet, give it an inspection like Eurodat recommended...

If the noise (clunking) is coming during a start, chances are its the diff strap, its ment to catch the diff as it moves upward due to the torque applied to the diff.

There are other options for the diff strap.

1. replace the worn out rubber with something like a nylon tiedown strap

2. DIY your own RT style mount, you'll need some scrap steel, a drill, a disk cutter, and access to a welder, the bushing is generic. Make sure to leave a gap for the fuel lines.

 

 

 

Personally I would consider #2 if you have access to the tools. 2/3 times I've had clunking its been the front diff mount/strap, the other time it was the damn gland nut on the strut tube.

Edited by heyitsrama

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i like the RT mount but if I was going to make my own then I’d go with the nylon strap, which I never came across in my previous google searches. 
 

Too bad he never got around to sharing the length of the strap that he made. And I wonder how difficult it is to remove the old strap and install a new one without dropping the diff. Clearly it’s doable, though. 

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When I was installing my RT mount I decoupled the driveshaft from the diff, loosened the sway bar/diff and moved things over to install. It was a complete pain in the arse IIRC. Might be easier/faster to just drop it.

I think with a strap upgrade it can just be fished through. The nylon should be easier to install than the rubber.

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13 hours ago, Cooper260z said:

 I’m pretty sure that their the two piece style so they should be able to be pulled out. 

Grab one, twist and pull.  They'll probably slide right out.  No press is required for installation.  It's two bushings and the steel sleeve inside.

I used washers to increase the effective length of the sleeve inside the bushing.  That cut down on noise transfer by creating an air gap on the bushing ends.  I don't think whoever designed the PU bushings really thought through the purpose and the reason for Nissan's original design.  Nissan's design broke the noise transfer path to keep things quiet.  The PU bushings are "racecar" bushings, designed to reduce any movement.  Racecar people like noise.

Many of the PU bushings weren't developed to make things better, they were developed because people would buy them.  "Free market " principles say that those two things go together but reality shows that they often do not.  Soapboxing...

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I made my own, I call it the AK Mount ;)


670e8a7c66025033f21cb90ad8146f41.plist&key=71d0682d8a39e8e0764cd77ed6dd24849d624ccd5ef9d44d479a365b3ada9b8780c127a0e8451730b7d3282c1827455f.jpg&key=56a7c87047d2fe9733b6a1dc14fdbeabcf1eea45d4e727851ca349468aed262bb382a9b0cfd32f2242bce9a463051b60.jpg&key=efac9de5ec9195961fccd479fdf6c5135fa919815e5a00d4b8c5c7b20bdf53de

If you are interested in doing the same I will update the thread with the final design of the one in the pics above.

The original design was meant to work with the strap. The final one was much stronger and replace all that strap business ;)


https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/the-%E2%80%9Cak%E2%80%9D-mount.27293/

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I also made my own. It’s called $1.00’s worth of rubber hose.

There is nothing wrong with the OEM design except the strap is too loose or gets stretched with time and allows the diff to lift too far tearing the rubber in the isolator. Just add a rubber spacer to remove the slop.

Yes I should zip tie the hose in place so it doesn’t work it’s way out. So $1.50

F2E7D02D-70A4-460A-90AD-6680EFAAE373.jpeg

Edited by zKars
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48 minutes ago, AK260 said:

I made my own, I call it the AK Mount 😉

670e8a7c66025033f21cb90ad8146f41.plist&key=71d0682d8a39e8e0764cd77ed6dd24849d624ccd5ef9d44d479a365b3ada9b87

If you are interested in doing the same I will update the thread with the final design of the one in the pics above.

The original design was meant to work with the strap. The final one was much stronger and replace all that strap business 😉

https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/the-%E2%80%9Cak%E2%80%9D-mount.27293/

You should post up the dimensions.  Looks like something a person could do with a vise and a drill.  I had to find a friend with a welder for mine.  Cost me a six-pack of good beer.

One thing to be aware of is if the bushing/snubber is pressed too hard in to the top of the diff you can get diff whine in the cabin.  I experimented with straps and clamps early on when I was working on clunk and had some pretty noisy experiences.

Your middle initial isn't C is it?

image.png

 

Edited by Zed Head
vise vice vices
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1 hour ago, AK260 said:

I made my own, I call it the AK Mount 😉


670e8a7c66025033f21cb90ad8146f41.plist&key=71d0682d8a39e8e0764cd77ed6dd24849d624ccd5ef9d44d479a365b3ada9b8780c127a0e8451730b7d3282c1827455f.jpg&key=56a7c87047d2fe9733b6a1dc14fdbeabcf1eea45d4e727851ca349468aed262bb382a9b0cfd32f2242bce9a463051b60.jpg&key=efac9de5ec9195961fccd479fdf6c5135fa919815e5a00d4b8c5c7b20bdf53de

If you are interested in doing the same I will update the thread with the final design of the one in the pics above.

The original design was meant to work with the strap. The final one was much stronger and replace all that strap business 😉


https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/the-%E2%80%9Cak%E2%80%9D-mount.27293/

Yeah, what zedhead said. Looks simple enough that even I could make it and looks effective. I’ll probably try to make one sometime, I like the idea of replacing the strap with a mount like that. But now is not the time for that, for me. 
 

1 hour ago, zKars said:

I also made my own. It’s called $1.00’s worth of rubber hose.

There is nothing wrong with the OEM design except the strap is too loose or gets stretched with time and allows the diff to lift too far tearing the rubber in the isolator. Just add a rubber spacer to remove the slop.

Yes I should zip tie the hose in place so it doesn’t work it’s way out. So $1.50

F2E7D02D-70A4-460A-90AD-6680EFAAE373.jpeg

however, now is the right time for me to try out cheap diagnosis! So I’ll give this a shot! 

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Loving the pipe idea! Simple fix / experiment!

Will defo update the final dimensions and angles.

Basically, it’s exactly what you said - it’s something I made with a vice, a bloody big hammer, a drill and tap and die set. Oh and a bit of paint!

There is a 1-2mm gap between the diff and the snubber but it doesn’t show in the pic. There is no discernible whine from the diff but on full throttle I do notice a little more gear noise if I really try to hear it. There is the option of using a Mini’s rubber suspension bump stop if noise is a concern.

63a9d2b677265daf2a1ddec7b29d9913.jpg&key=d2bf84be4534445b55b3fda8db4e040d578ac99e80cdb8c72a136727034da2b9

On two very rare occasions a big clonk was heard while hammering it and changing up - here is my hypothesis:

- The insulator is brand new Nissan, so I like to think it’s a good ‘un and not the issue.

- The diff is lifting under load as it should and the diff mount insulator rubber is not being allowed to expand as much as it could / should. So in effect, the AK Mount is storing the energy and returning it to the diff when I change gear at 6.5k rpm, causing the metal parts of the mount to come into contact with each other. With the modified engine and the R200 3.9, there is c. 70% more torque hitting the wheels / diff mount insulator than stock. So there is a heck of a lot of energy being stored and released which the stock diff mount insulator wasn’t designed for.

- Solution? Stick a bit of rubber pipe in the middle of the diff mount insulator and see if it ever happens again default_laugh.png!!

How on earth did you figure out my middle initial! Genius! ;) My pin code is next Mr[mention=2635]Zedhead[/mention]!

I apologise to the OP if I’ve taken the thread somewhat off track.

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I've attached a writeup on how to make a front differential mount, unfortunately, I didn't make note of what web site it came from. I'm assuming either HybridZ or this site. I had mine cut on a CNC type machine I had access to up until C-19 hit. The SVG file may or may not be correct. It's used as the source file for creating the part on the CNC.

 

Differential Front Mount.docx differentialFrontMount.svg

Edited by Jeff Berk
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don’t worry about it @AK260 in a way this is pretty directly related to what I was asking (or at least to the reason why I was asking the question) so it’s all worked out 

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On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 2:01 AM, heyitsrama said:

@Captain Obvious might be have some information for a nylon replacement strap it looks like there is some references in this thread, although the images are missing

I can't believe I never measured the length of that nylon strap. Maybe I did and just wrote it down on a piece of note scrap. I've got a pile of them.  LOL

I've long replaced the blue cheapo nylon strap with a better one with webbing from McMaster. I also upgraded to an adjustable mount on one side so I could adjust for belt stretch, etc. I think I've got my original proof of concept belt in a box somewhere and I'll measure it when I get a chance.

And yes... You can remove and replace the strap relatively easily without dropping the diff or even removing the cross member.

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