kats

Test report of "HLS30Q (Z Europe model) countermeasures High speed stability "

    Recommended Posts

    Hello,

    I think the best performance 240Z is Europe model, after seeing this report.
    I try to show and 
    I do my best , I hope you enjoy.

    First of all, Nissan started development faithfully from February 1970 for the Euro model . Not before the beginning of its production.

    Nissan did not think about being famous in Europe? Or they wanted to do the development without hurrying up?

    Anyway March 1971, they finally set the spec like this,

    Final Europe version 
    Stabilizer bar front 22mm / rear 20mm
    Stiffer spring front & rear 
    Stiffer shock absorber front & rear 
    Front height minus 15mm
    Spoilers front & rear

    With this spec, the optional magnesium wheels (same as Z432 )would add more better handling and performance, I saw some car has the wheels in Europe.

    One interesting note is, there is a "Portugal 
    Version "
    This is like a Z432, because spring rate and stabilizer bars are the same. Not as sporty as Final Europe version but it has a little more sporty feelings than others.

    Kats

     

    IMG_0635.JPG

    IMG_0631.JPG

    IMG_0632.JPG

    IMG_0633.JPG

    IMG_0634.JPG

    • Like 2

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Great info Kats!  You sure find unique and interesting information.  Sherlock!!! 

     

    Given the defacto world's best small sports car producing area was Europe and that the export 240z Sports was tuned for USA market and the Fairlady HS30 for Japan, it seems prudent for Datsun to make a Euro Spec when entering that market.

     

    The Australian market Z is interesting in that it does not have the side markers and the front turn lights are clear.  I like its looks the best :)

    datsun-240z-260z-1-500.jpg

    1971 aus.jpg

    aus 1972.jpg

     

    i236648.jpg

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Thanks for sharing this.

    Can someone share pictures of a Portuguese market 240Z so I can compare them to other European , Japanese and US models.

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Portuguese 240z with the Kobe seiko wheels.

    Even came with a Kobe wheel as spare wheel I think?IMG_8183.JPG

    • Like 2

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    9 hours ago, gnosez said:

    Thanks for sharing this.

    Can someone share pictures of a Portuguese market 240Z so I can compare them to other European , Japanese and US models.

    'Entreposto' HLS30 walkaround:

     

     

     

    Edited by HS30-H
    • Like 3

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Alan, headlight covers weren't standard items on those cars or were they?

     

    //Andreas

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    1 hour ago, moelk said:

    Alan, headlight covers weren't standard items on those cars or were they?

     

    //Andreas

    I'm not sure the spec was that firmly fixed. I've seen a lot of the Portuguese market cars wearing them and Entreposto certainly optioned their cars up through their great leverage with Nissan, so likely a lot of their cars got them. Always exceptions to the rule, I guess. And the change in European lighting regulations (minimum height) certainly made a mess...

    More on topic: It's interesting that much of the refinement work on the HLS30Q is framed as 'Stability' (especially in cross-winds) and 'Safety' (in control), when in effect it is making a sports-oriented car even more 'sporty'.  

     

    • Like 2

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Before that, I found new today,

    about a department code(ID) , we talked about it before in another thread, very first S30 prototype making sequence .

    Each car has each department to belong,

    we did not know what "K11" means. 

    Now I see K11 is Dai Ichi Soukatsu Ka (general affairs section No.1) in Dai Ichi Sharyo Sekkei Ka (Chassis layout/ mechanical design department No.1 )

    I have Nissan footage books( Alan you have them too) ,this 1964-1973 has a lot of interesting information.

    Please see the attached pictures.

    Kats

    IMG_0662.JPG

    IMG_0666.JPG

    • Like 2

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Alan, you pointed out Takahashi - Tori Shimari Yaku (director) on the top left of the test report, I found him !

    In the colored figure, the very left is Mr.Hara (director) who was also very important the birth of S30, Mr.K and Mr.Matsuo and other designers and engineers are all saying very good memories about him.Mr.Hara was a car guy, I guess. 

    Next him is Mr.Takahashi , we have no idea about him.

    The third picture is Mr.Hara.

    IMG_0641.JPG

    IMG_0664.JPG

    IMG_0663.JPG

    IMG_0645.JPG

    IMG_0646.JPG

    IMG_0665.JPG

    • Like 2

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    On 04/04/2017 at 8:18 AM, HS30-H said:

    'Entreposto' HLS30 walkaround:

     

     

     

    That does seem to comprise all the best elements of the various markets.  Those skinny wheels(by modern standards) look great.  Looks light on its feet.  Just needs to be Orange or Safari Gold.

    Were the various european specs considered factory 'specs' or importer models?

    • Like 2

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    11 hours ago, Jason240z said:

    That does seem to comprise all the best elements of the various markets.  Those skinny wheels(by modern standards) look great.  Looks light on its feet.  Just needs to be Orange or Safari Gold.

    Were the various european specs considered factory 'specs' or importer models?

    As far as I'm aware (and I'm hoping if I'm wrong I'll be corrected) the 'Entreposto' HLS30s were built that way at the factory in Japan to Portugal-specific models. The factory may well have supplied certain parts in the car (headlamp covers?) to protect them during shipping, perhaps?

    All other 'European' models (HS30U, HLS30Q etc) were certainly built that way at the factory, so not the same situation as dealer add-ons and local market showroom 'options'.

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    On 04/04/2017 at 4:26 PM, kats said:

    Now I see K11 is Dai Ichi Soukatsu Ka (general affairs section No.1) in Dai Ichi Sharyo Sekkei Ka (Chassis layout/ mechanical design department No.1 )

    I have Nissan footage books( Alan you have them too) ,this 1964-1973 has a lot of interesting information.

    Hi Kats,

    Great! You are a codebreaker!

    Yes, I have the same set of Nissan ten-year report books as you. However, they are so big, heavy and complicated that it is very hard work to go through them. I found some treasures but I am sure there is so much more in there to be discovered...

    It's great to have all the K-section sub department codes in one place. I am going to cross-reference them all now.

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    3 hours ago, HS30-H said:

    As far as I'm aware (and I'm hoping if I'm wrong I'll be corrected) the 'Entreposto' HLS30s were built that way at the factory in Japan to Portugal-specific models. The factory may well have supplied certain parts in the car (headlamp covers?) to protect them during shipping, perhaps?

    All other 'European' models (HS30U, HLS30Q etc) were certainly built that way at the factory, so not the same situation as dealer add-ons and local market showroom 'options'.

    Alan's explanation is perfect, that is what I wanted to say.

    About section code, we see various K codes on the left column of the HLS30Q report, with cross refference , they areK10 and K20 chassis desigen, layout/ K30 Engine,power train /K60 prototype making / 360 auxiliary unit engineering (Alan can give the best interprit about this)  e.t.c.

    Let's find out section codes which give us more interesting imagination. 

    Kats

    Edited by kats

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Page1

    Title :HLS30Q (Z Europe model) countermeasures High speed stability test

    Objective: countermeasure S30 crosswind stability and set spec of Europe export model

    Date : from February 1970 to 27th March 1971

    1 Outline

    Soon after S30 went on sale, poor cross wind stability was heard.

    To export S30 to Europe market , we knew it was a very important key to develop and raise its stability at high speed and in cross wind situation to the level of satisfied.

    K42( car / chassis test ) had started basic study and development about crosswind stability using domestic S30 well before this program began .

    From May 1970, that activity succeeded to this program, and continued testing, developing Europe model.

    Finally, the difference from North American model (HLS30U) is,

    a) style element 

    Front spoiler and rear spoiler added

    b ) suspension element

    strengthening sping rate and stabilizer front and rear

    front and rear shock absorber's damping force up

    applied 5J -14 rim and 175-HR14,

    applied C30 rack mounting insulator (Replaced from SUGURI type)

    Kats

    Edited by kats
    • Like 3

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Thanks for adding all the detail, quite amazing that there is documentation to support the development, that you've got it and more importantly are sharing it.

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Thanks Jason240z ! My English contains mistakes always, so anyone can correct me for our documentation.

    Here are some pictures, the first one is USA 240Z, the second one is U.K. 240Z, I think U.K. 240Z looked lower in front,so this car must be the Final Europe version.

    The 3rd and 4th are LHD Europe 240Z, this might be also a Final Europe version as is has spoilers both front and rear. And this car is earlier than the green U.K. car judged by hubcaps.

     According to the report, the test completed in March 1971. This red car could be a very early Final Europe version.

    The 5th and 6th are Australian 240Z, cleanest exterior I love it so much.

    Kats

     

     

    IMG_0786.JPG

    IMG_0787.JPG

    IMG_0788.JPG

    IMG_0789.JPG

    IMG_0790.JPG

    IMG_0791.JPG

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I think this picture posted by Alan, thanks in advance.

    This car has a rear spoiler only, and before March 1971, this might be Portugal version.

    It is a little bit complicated,Portugal version was originally called "Current Europe Version" .

    The report explanes in page 3,  "...June 1970  Current Europe Version was established .." .

    This Current Europe Version has same suspension as Z432 and has only a rear spoiler. This version was sent to DATSUN

    Netherland in August 1970, then they reported back in November 1970 , the team must be so shocked by the report,

    you can see it at the bottom "The side wind stability is very Bad " This is caused by the following point..."

    Mr.Takei said in a magazine " I remember it was in 1970, someone sent two 240Zs to Europe. I had thought we should not do it,

     it was not ready yet"

    " We had got the report, criticized severely. They said the car was not a sports car.Then we asked what they wanted, they told us

    like this, " In cold weather, with cross wind 20kts, a car can do max 200km/h and cruise 180km/h, that is minimum requirement" .

    " As an engineer, I wanted to try it, I was full of energy. We were told that we had to make it by the spring of 1971..."

     

    So, before June 1970, all the export 240Z has same spec. After that, Current Europe Version established.

    Then March 1971, Final Europe Version established. Current Europe Version was not pretty for DATSUN Netherland ,however

    Nissan decided Current Europe Version must remain in a line up as a Portugal Version.

    Kats 

     

     

     

    iphone 1220.JPG

    iphone 1222.JPG

    Edited by kats
    • Like 2

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    This is Mr. Takei , he was a leader of the Europe test group, and after Final Europe Version established, he spent 4 months with the car in Europe.

    What a wonderful man !

    Kats

    IMG_0672.JPG

    IMG_0673.JPG

    IMG_0674.JPG

    IMG_0675.JPG

    IMG_0676.JPG

    IMG_0677.JPG

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    59 minutes ago, kats said:

    I think this picture posted by Alan, thanks in advance.

    This car has a rear spoiler only, and before March 1971, this might be Portugal version.

    iphone 1222.JPG

    Kats,

    I have an original set of prints from that sequence, and they came from Datsun Netherlands. Clearly a canal/kanaal in the background too.

    Dutch and Portuguese licence plates look very similar.

    • Like 1

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    'Entreposto' HLS30 walkaround:
     
     
     



    I like the mud flaps, was there an option for those in US? Or aftermarket item?

    With the stock ride height, I think I would want them on my Z, makes it look like an off-road car.
    8)

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Thanks Alan, the red car is only one for me to see and check an early Europe car.

    heyitsrama , the mad flap could be a dealer add on. I like the height like a rally car too.

    Kats

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Here is a car on a brochure for France,

    I think this is a Final Europe version, 15mm lower front, stiffer springs and stabilizers, looked great.

    Kats

    IMG_0868.JPG

    IMG_0869.JPG

    Edited by kats

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    This photo was taken at the Test Drive US & CANADA, I love this silver.

    And 240ZG from a magazine.

    The reason of 15mm lowered in front is, the development team of Europe S30 had found that S30 had a habit of lifting in front when cruising. It was about 10mm.  

    Mr.Takei and Mr.Miyazaki and other engineers all admit that G-nose gives a huge benfit when cruising at high speed, stability is much much improved . Before going on sale G-nose in Japan, many Nissan test crew members got speeding  ticket in Tohmei express high way, they did 200km/h crusing. They did not care about ticket ,even they all reported  the benifit of G-nose effect not only to the test grope but also to the executives , finally some executives tested by themselves, then G-nose began to sell. 

    Kats

    STILL0503.jpg

    IMG_0875.JPG

    IMG_0876.JPG

    Edited by kats
    • Like 2

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now