HLS30-OOO13 Has Been Found!

[Zs-ondabrain]

Here, Here brother, by the way, its HLS30-00013.

Thought I'd throw that in there, just cause I can. Being the American chest Beating kinda guy that I am.

Dave

And by the way, It WAS "all about making money." After all, That's why 99% of business's are IN business. MONEY. Plain and simple.

Hope to get some actual updates here soon.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Zs-ondabrain

[doradox]

Steve your numbers don't lie , it's just the nose in the air attitude the world sees with not only this tiny thread , but many things around the world the U.S. seems to make their ''own'' by automatic default ( ALWAYS implying size matters , go big or go home etc.)

Instead of quiet understanding of wealth and strength , we see chest pounding and self brought accolades . By the way , China has won that quiet trade war years ago . If they could , they would cash in on the U.S. buck they already own and sink us all . By jove, you sank my battleship !

Let's keep this friendly . We all live on planet earth , you just have to look around past the fence a bit !

I'm not trying to be unfriendly and I'm not holding my nose in the air. And I didn't fire the first shot by any means.

The facts speak for themselves. When it comes to markets I don't know another metric we could use to gauge the importance of one over another. Even on a per capita basis the US Market leads with respect to the 240Z. The US fell in love with the Z.

Certainly the size of your country's market is no measure of your own personal worth to the world or to the Z community itself.

However, when it comes to the importance of a market with respect to the 240Z lets let the numbers speak for themselves.

Steve

[Chris280Z]

hehehehe...

[doradox]

I hope you don't mind me singling out this particular quote for some extra attention?

First of all, I think you are - stop me if you've heard this one before - falling into the same old trap as many others. You don't seem to have any concept of how seriously a company like Nissan ( amongst its sworn enemies in the Japanese market ) took its own image and sense of self worth both then - in 1969 - and now. There's a very strong case to put that Nissan and its home rivals in that period ( and still so today ) took their own domestic market even more seriously than it took any single export market, but outsiders very rarely recognise it. Who told you that the "240Z" - or a car like it with perhaps a different name - would not have existed but for the USA market? On the contrary, it is almost unthinkable that Nissan would not have a model, and even several variants of a current model, in that sector in that period, regardless of any export business considerations. Basically, if you don't get this then you don't get Japan.

Thanks for the extra barb of the '1929' cars ( itself an inaccurate figure ) for the UK market. It's flattering of you to aim at me specifically, but the UK market is not some silly pseudo patriotic obsession of mine I'm afraid. I tend to have my eye on the tens of thousands of JAPANESE market cars that the "production list" you quoted above seems to be blind to.

Yes of course, Nissan would not have made a huge amount of money out of those UK market cars - but I can assure you they did hope to sell a few more than that. Unlike you, they took the UK market seriously and made a special effort to tailor the car to the needs of a somewhat unfavourable marketing position ( tariff quotas and high import duties to name just two ). They made their presence felt and stepped up their image. It wasn't all about making money.

And just a little reminder that "Datsun" never had any "burning desire" in relation to these cars, because "Datsun" was just a badge that was placed on some of them. The company was Nissan, of course.

Cheers,

Alan T.

Well if 3/4 of your expected market were to cease to exist one would have to rethink your market plan. You'd possibly have a hard time convincing management to continue. We'll never know what might have been.

A model Like it? I'm sorry, I thought we were talking 240Z, isn't that what was found? Certainly Nissan would still have made cars for their home market. What has that to do with this?

So what was it 1930-1931? Come on, the order of magnitude is right and the nit picking details don't change the fact that Great Britain was barely worth their while. Import duties, whatever, that has nothing to do with the US.

On a per capita basis the US still leads any other market. Japan included

Datsun - Nissan, just semantics and has no bearing on the argument.

Do you actually have something substantial to say?

Steve

Edited August 15, 2009 by doradox
?

[HS30-H]

Here, Here brother, by the way, its HLS30-00013.

Thought I'd throw that in there, just cause I can. Being the American chest Beating kinda guy that I am.

Thanks Dave, I've gone back and edited my little omissions of the L button. Getting rather late here at 02:46am.....

And by the way, It WAS "all about making money." After all, That's why 99% of business's are IN business. MONEY. Plain and simple.

Of course, you must realise that - whilst it is all about the money in the long term - its not always about the money in the short term. Certain models and variants can be sold in a market because its good for the image of the brand, and certain - somewhat expensive - activities such as racing and rallying can be undertaken simply because its good for the brand. So good for business in the BIG picture, but not necessarily profitable if you can only see "1929" cars through the ole Beck-O-Vision, even if it can look back through time to see certainties where there were originally just hopes.

[HS30-H]

Well if 3/4 of your expected market were to cease to exist one would have to rethink your market plan. You'd possibly have a hard time convincing management to continue. We'll never know what might have been.

A model Like it? I'm sorry, I thought we were talking 240Z, isn't that what was found? Certainly Nissan would still have made cars for their home market. What has that to do with this?

So what was it 1930-1931? Come on, the order of magnitude is right and the nit picking details don't change the fact that Great Britain was barely worth their while. Import duties, whatever, that has nothing to do with the US.

On a per capita basis the US still leads any other market. Japan included

Datsun - Nissan, just semantics and has no bearing on the argument.

Do you actually have something substantial to say?

Steve

I think I'm making a fairly good effort to say something substantial, but you're ignoring it :classic:

You haven't answered any of my questions, by the way.

With your ability to see into the future, I think you would have been very useful to Nissan around 1968/69. At that point they had designed and engineered a new family of sports / GT cars, and hoped to sell a high number of one particular basic variant to the north American market ( ahem, not just the USA ). You could of course have told them just how many they were going to sell, and they could have tooled up appropriately ( instead of underestimating it, which is what DID happen ). Hindsight seems to make those numbers look like a 'done deal' to you.

Of course my point - which you conveniently ignore - is that the numbers sold don't actually tell us the whole story of the concept, design and engineering of the S30-series Z range as seen at launch. Talking about the "240Z" ( which 240Z? ) as though it is Z Genesis is just a symptom of the problem.

But of course, I'm just "nit picking" and you are doing something else entirely

Any volunteers on the HLS30-00016 original sale story? I'm building my hopes up for a good laugh.

[Unkle]

We're not saying we don't appreciate the UK finds or significance. We're talking United States of America. That's it, That's all.

As for "What's it worth" that we'll hear for the next 20 friggin pages, it goes without saying that "Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder"..... The car is worth what the highest price paid says it's worth, and that's completely up to the future buyer and the present owner. And there's NO in between.

It does'nt take a Rocket Scientist to figure these things out.

Dave

Sheesh. Let me paraphrase what Dave REALLY means : We're ( meaning he speaks for all ) . That's it , that's all . ( meaning nobody say anything else )

There's no in between ( meaning not a chance he's exagerating ).

Last phrase speaks for him ( I mean ITself ).

[bigoak]

Man...we haven't had one of these in a year or so...was almost refreshing...

Other than that...I'm an idiot sometimes...

Edited August 15, 2009 by bigoak

[Arne]

Let's be civil, folks....

[Unkle]

Crap , got caught up in it, sorry for the smackdown, Dave .

[AZ-240z]

Well, at one time I was tempted to chime in with some back slapping exuberance to try and elicit more pictures, and information on this very unique find, but!

I fear that that might, in some way, might be misconstrued as being politically incorrect or erroneous, in some unintended way, so!

I'm just going to have to wait and postpone my enjoyment of things of real importance about 00013 until the petty commentary subsides.

I am far too old, with life concerns of a far greater magnitude, than to allow

a terrific place such as this forum of total enjoyment to add any anxiety that already exists in my life.

Sorry, just had to vent. Please ignore the previous as it was just for me.

Dan

[Mike B]

Thanks Dave, I've gone back and edited my little omissions of the L button. Getting rather late here at 02:46am.....

I think you missed a few 'little Ls' in post #17 too.

Steve your numbers don't lie , it's just the nose in the air attitude the world sees with not only this tiny thread , but many things around the world the U.S. seems to make their ''own'' by automatic default ( ALWAYS implying size matters , go big or go home etc.)

Instead of quiet understanding of wealth and strength , we see chest pounding and self brought accolades . By the way , China has won that quiet trade war years ago . If they could , they would cash in on the U.S. buck they already own and sink us all . By jove, you sank my battleship !

Let's keep this friendly . We all live on planet earth , you just have to look around past the fence a bit !

American kids still put Canada flag patches on their backpacks while travelling through Europe for a reason...

Its interesting to see that some members chose to jump on the 'bash the US' bandwagon when the topic of 'was the S30 designed for the US or world market' comes up. By the way, I do agree with Alan that the S30 was designed for the world market. I started a thread a week or so ago about a Datsun USA press release that would have been a better basis for that discussion http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35384, but there were few comments about it.

A couple of quotes from that ctzcc.com thread have been echoing around inside my noggin for a little while since I read them, so I thought I'd ask about them here.....

Alan, if you have questions or comments about the post on ctzcc.com why not post them there so the person that posted can address them directly? It seems like you are asking for people on this site who didn't make the comments to defend them.

Back to the original subject of this thread - the 'discovery' of HLS30-00013. I would think it is significant for what it appears to be - the lowest VIN# HLS30 sold directly to the public. My understanding is HLS30-00006 through HLS30-00008 were used by Nissan for publicity (auto shows, etc.) and then used for racing, so in my opinion they would all be more valuable than this car. I would also think that any complete PS30 in decent shape or true works rally car would be much more valuable than this car. I am sure there are other more significant S30 variants as well.

-Mike

Edited August 15, 2009 by Mike B