Electronic Igniton on 240k

[kyteler]

Well, both my electronics have the one on the left whereas my points-based uses the one on the right, I don't think it would really matter too much to be honest.

[The C110]

Okay couldnt get it started, the shaft thingo with the groove in it, inside the dizzy, is not 180 deg. out of phase [although i dont think it would fit otherwise], and im pretty sure all of the leads are in the correct order now [its anti-clockwise yes? - firing order 1-5-3-6-2-4]. Other than that, any factors that could affect it starting [the dizzy itself could well be stuffed, but unlikely as could the coil]

Heres a pic of it all hooked up, anything wrong with this picture?

p.s THe ballast resistor, its attatched to the old coil, no? Its not on the car anymore anyway, if that is the ballast resistor

[The C110]

Dont know if anyone is paying attention, but ill get on with it anyway. Had another crack at getting the whole setup working, but after realising that i didnt actually know what the ballast resistor looked like :stupid: , i think i know where the problem was seeded. In any case i had to put all of the old points based stuff back together as work is looming :disappoin and im in need of a car...Ill have another crack at it on the weekend, and get that pesky ballast resistor out of the way [for a while i thought that it was the condenser nestled in closely with the old coil....gha!]. Thanks to the fantastic guide provided by Jeff [aka seerex], i should be firing along smoothly soon. A couple of questions im interested in, though; where is the ballast resistor on the 240k - i have no idea what it looks like? And, those of you who picked off an el. dizzy from either a zx or an r30, did you take the pedestal out with the el. dizzy and use that, or did you just slot it into the old pedestal? I would think a new gasket is a must if a different pedestal is put in place of the old. Cheers,

Tom

[kyteler]

Dont know if anyone is paying attention, but ill get on with it anyway.

I AM! :classic:

Had another crack at getting the whole setup working, but after realising that i didnt actually know what the ballast resistor looked like :stupid: , i think i know where the problem was seeded. In any case i had to put all of the old points based stuff back together as work is looming :disappoin and im in need of a car...Ill have another crack at it on the weekend, and get that pesky ballast resistor out of the way

I didn't add or remove any ballast resistor, but having said that, perhaps that's why mine is being a bit of a pain in the arse at the moment, however, it did run fantastically for months after I changed to the leccy dizz.

A couple of questions im interested in, though; where is the ballast resistor on the 240k - i have no idea what it looks like?

Unsure sorry, I think the only ballast resistor in the K is either located in behind the dash or alternatively under the black panel on the right front quarter.

And, those of you who picked off an el. dizzy from either a zx or an r30, did you take the pedestal out with the el. dizzy and use that, or did you just slot it into the old pedestal? I would think a new gasket is a must if a different pedestal is put in place of the old. Cheers,

Tom

Only took the dizzy, it slots right on in although from looking at the base of both the points and electronic, you might feel a bit suspect about whether it will be a direct replacement, but it certainly is.

In regards to your picture, I don't see anything wrong, have you checked whether the rotor spun when it's cranking? If it did spin, did you check for spark? Did the car sound like it was even attempting to fire?

When I replaced mine, it really was a simple case of, one out, one in, change coil, add wire, turn key, vroom.. she started up straight away and ran smoother than it had done since I've had her. Mayhaps I'm just lucky? :tapemouth

[The C110]

Mmmhhmmm, well then! I followed a carbon copy of the steps you took...herm. Well, i know the ballast resistor prohibits the coil to the use of 12 volts, so i assume that is why you may have had issues recently. As far as im aware its an integral part to the swap, but then again, as youve discovered, maybe its not? I searched high and low for the ballast resistor, and after unscrewing the black panel you mentioned, it is quite likely in there. However, i really dont know what its supposed to look like and im not keen on dicking around with the bits in there...I guess its still possible to be in the dash too :tapemouth

Yeah it fits straight in, but i had to do a little re-modelling of the baseplate that i illustrated in earlier pics. It doesnt quite line up with some of the screw holes... I didint actually check if the rotor was spinning, but the car did sound like it was attempting to fire, sort of a degah-ah-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-degah-ahj-j-j-j-j-j ! Perhaps i somehow comepletely botched the wiring of the leads [i did check it several times, and the spin direction of the rotor is def. anti-clockwise]

I also found, through the guide Jeff emailed me, there are a number of other factors that need to be taken into consideration. Firstly, the spark plug gap needs to be changed [not essential obviously, but for optimum use], and the timing needs to be far more advanced than with a points setup [around 18 as opposed to 14 or less]. Im suspecting your just one lucky man, Michael! but i will persevere despite my lack of luck :nervous: . Thanks for your response anyway, i may just be stupid in all of this :laugh:

A question to everyone and anyone who has electrified their ignition in a 240k, where is the ballast resistor? Have you done this conversion yet Bruce, any experiences or troubles? Thanks again

Tom

[240K&Beyond]

Hi Tom, it's 2am now, Ive had freinds over all afternoon and evening. Sorry to hear all the troubles. Time permitting, I have my dizzys ready, and I'll try the conversion tomorrow and make notes.

I took the Yellow 240 down to the steam cleaning bay today, two hours later, the engine and bay is spotless. It's amazzzzing what a couple of bottles of Nifty, a tooth brush and a shi#load of sweat can do.

After cleaning my mechanical dizzy and leads out, she started 1st time. Pitty it flooded 100 metres down the road. I think I shall be going down the EFI track sooner that I thought.

Chat tomorrow, I'll let you now how my dizzy swap went. That and find that bl@@dy balast resistive dova-lacki.

Cheers,

[240K&Beyond]

Okay Tom,

I have just put my 280 electronic dizzy in my 240k. I noticed a couple of things through doing it:

1) There is no balast resistor. Not on my `73K anyway.

2) The wires connect as previously stated.

3) YOU NEED AN EARTH. I noticed that there was a terminal around the other side of the dizzy that mounts straight on the metal side of the dizzy. Thinking about it, how would the electronics of the thing work without it. There is a gasket isloating the dizzy from the rest of the alloy front of the motor. Although the bolds may help, Putting a lead from this pin to the body helps.

4) Looking at the picture of your dizzy mounted, it looks a little out of scew! That is, the vac advance can should be point the the corner of the radiator. And the lead connecting to the 1st spark plug should be facing the fron of the car, not around to the side. It looks to me like you dissy timing would be shot and there would be no chance to start.

5) I did not mess with any of the middle part of the dizzy. ie: the timing adjustment plate and alike. I just unbolted the 2 10mm bolts at the very bottom of the dizzy stem. Then swapped them.

6) I have not even set the timing yet, as it works and it should have been okay from the other motor.

Let us know how you went again.

Cheers.

[The C110]

Okay...had another crack again today, and it was going within minutes but a couple of things: My dizzy IS out of skew, thats why i couldnt start it before because the leads were in the socket previous to the one they were supposed to be in. This is because, the timing adjustment plate your referring to did not fit on the original pedestal without a little drilling in the plate. Im assuming that you used a pedestal which came with your l28 leccy dizzy, as the two 10mm bolts only exist on the dizzy pedestal itself. To pull any of the dizzy's out, you only need to unscrew one bolt which also has a philips screw slot in it.

So i used the timing plate from the old dizzy and modified that a little [ie drilling]. Aside from those issues its fine, but im not sure how well its working. I need a timing light to set the timing properly, does seem to run okay though.

In terms of the earth your talking about, my old dizzy already had an earth wire screwed into the cam cover with one of the bolts, so i just used this. There is a pic of it obviously.

In any case THANKS HEAPS for your correspondance, its all been a great help. Ill persevere with optimising the system, but the main thing is that it works. One final question, you still adjust the timing of the car by twisting the dizzy on the pedestal right, dumb question i know but just to be sure?

Tom

[kyteler]

Im assuming that you used a pedestal which came with your l28 leccy dizzy, as the two 10mm bolts only exist on the dizzy pedestal itself. To pull any of the dizzy's out, you only need to unscrew one bolt which also has a philips screw slot in it.

So i used the timing plate from the old dizzy and modified that a little [ie drilling]. Tom

Noooooooooo, dude, the single philips head bolt is the one you only ever loosen to adjust the timing, in order to remove the dizzy's properly, you remove the two 10mm bolts just below that, which is abviously what you were calling the 'pedestal' *click* whoops, sorry, yes.. you use the 'pedestal'.

Something to note is that the 'pedestal' is UNABLE to be rmoved from the optical R30 dizzy and you HAVE to undo the two 10mm bolts.

Sorry dude, this is obviously wherer things went a little down the creek for you.

For whatever reason, I thought you mean the 'pedestal' was the section below the two 10mm bolts.

I've always just removed the 10mm bolts to take the dizzy off, have never tried seperating any of the dizzy components (other than the cap :classic:)

[240K&Beyond]

Hi Tom,

Glad to hear you got it going. The single 10mm with the philips head is the one you loosen to adjust the timing. You know, by spining the dizzy around like normal, like what you said above.

The two other 10mm bolts below left the whole pedestal off. It's a bit of a tight fit, but if you pull up with one hand whilest tapping the side of the dizzy, it should pop off.

YOu might find that when you get your timing light runing, that the car is not making the correct adjustment. This could be because of you "strange" modified timing adjment plate you have created. You may need to put it all back together using all the bits from the electronic dizzy only.

I have ordered a timing light, but for now, I have adjusted mine by running the motor and adjusting the dizzy by sound. Single the dizzy around one way until you hear the car start to slow. (Not position, this is too retarded). Swing the dizzy around the other way until the car starts to race higher (Not position, this is to advance). Now, adjust the dizzy 1/2 way between both positions. (This is a safe position) I prefer to adjust it 1/3 more to the "advanced side" of the 1/2 thats left between the middle position and the max advanced position.

The best way to test it is to go and find a large hill and drive up it in a high gear like 3rd slowly and put your foot down. If you can hear the car pinging (Like the engine is rattling) the car is too advanced. You must the back the timing a little off, back to the centre position.

If you don't hear pinging, adjust the dizzy to be more advance. Just a little at a time, until you hear the ping. Once you hear it, adjust it back one step.

You have now used "Bush Mechanics 101" to find the optimal timing for your car. When you get your timing light make a note of what the timing is. I will bet it is a little more advance than what the manual says to use. As cars get older and part's tolerance greaten, I find this tends to happen.

Good Luck and have fun.

[The C110]

Aa ha!!!! And the penny drops...it would have been MUCH simpler if id pulled a dizzy out of a car myself. From what you said, mine is def. from an l28 [i already knew it but thats proper confirmation]. Ill see how she goes with the menagarie of parts, but if i encounter issues ill find me a bloody pedestal!! Damn i hate that thing...Anyway, as you said Bruce, the car may not be adjusting itself properly due to my hybrid contraption. Ill be seeing my mate this wk end, so ill use his light to verify any anomalies.

Thanks for your bush mechanics guide [the series on abc was pretty entertaining i found] bruce, ive got a fair idea of how to adjust the timing but you cleared me up on the pinging issue, cheers. Its pretty harmful to motors after extended use, no [say weeks]?

I will bet it is a little more advance than what the manual says to use. As cars get older and part's tolerance greaten, I find this tends to happen.

I have a guide regarding most of this [but for the Z], and it reccomends a more advanced timing for an electronic dizzy due to the way they operate.

The EL distributor has less mechanical advance than most original 240z distributors. This will allow the timing at idle to be advanced more than the factory spec for the original 240Z distributor. This should be checked with the vacuum hose disconnected from the vacuum controller on the distributor. After full engine warm-up, check for desired idle timing of 18 degrees BTDC at 650 rpm.

My SU's and lumpy cam effect the idle speed too, so it will be interesting to see what i end up with in terms of timing.

Many, many thanks guys,

Tom

[kyteler]

Mmmmm, twin SU's and a lumpy cam... you lucky bugger. And with the extra smooth rev of a leccy dizzy you should be sorted!