26th-Z

zip lock bags only last a couple of years before the plastic falls apart. wipe your parts down with oil, wrap them in paper and put them away in a box.

This is so frustrating. Wanna see something rarest and obscurest hardly any one of you has ever seen or ever will see? Presenting the Silver Pennybody! Yes ladies and gurus, boys and girls, the lucious, exclusive, royal body forged from solid silver by twenty-six hundred year old monks living a cave atop Mt. Fuji. A glitter to the eyes, this body cannot be viewed by anyone under sixty in the bright sunlight. Even a slight glance in total darkness is likely to grow hair on your palms. The studly hungwell who took this photo gave up his life for the opportunity to see this body - a result of years of cruising porn sites in search of the perfect body - and only lived long enough to pass this photo on to the archives. This body is said to be THE ultimate vampire slayer, however the facts get a little blurred because the Silver Pennybody is hardly ever seen and any record is obscured in semantics. Please don't pass this picture around. It is not FDA approved and may contribute to global warming. But Z car guys deserve a break every now and then.

You missed my point, Steve. Let me a little more blunt. You got cheap and you got low-class cheapskates. Which one is it? Quite frankly, SportZ was pretty close to the sharp end of the Z car world. In case you all haven't noticed, the number of S30s out there is dwindling rapidly, the S32 crowd is probably the dominant crowd at the moment and the Z33 crowd is very well about to take over. Z car events are geared to the Z32 / Z33 crowd and the S30 guys who have held the backbone of the Z world for so many years are simply not around anymore. Young kids are spending on their Z33s money that equals my complete restoration and magazines catering to any specific marques spend most of their copy space on what is new in the market. Pick up a copy of Roundel and show me all the space devoted to the 02, for instance. I applaud Nissan Sport. Look forward to their new venture and wish them all the best of good fortune.

I'm having a hard time reading this thread. Perhaps I'm confused. SportZ magazine is changing names, modifying their format a bit, will take a little time to put out their next issue, and there is a discussion about getting your money back? Excuse me?

Got your PM Al. Wow! What a lot of energy on this thread! The pictures I posted are the "before" pictures of both the babes. 26th didn't look very bad at all when I took her apart two years ago. She is currently resting in primer. 27th is rusting comfortably in a tent in my back yard. I bought one of those metal framed storage tents and put down a crushed shell floor. As you all can imagine, these are l o n g t e r m projects! For reference purposes, I paid $2,300 for 27th on eBay and it cost me $800 to have her hauled down from Dover, Deleware. That price reflects the VIN value. 26th was purchased in 1983 and there was VIN value in that sale, however much less. #248 is in pieces which lowers the value no matter what, however there is recovery value in the V8. I don't know about the "Scarab" thing. I would ask ZRush. My restorations will be mostly rehab of the original parts, however I don't get all wadded up about replacements. There are differences, but one simply buys the correct part - or make a replica. Then there is the whole issue of shocks, bushings, and rubber seals. I say just buy what is on the market and get the car on the road! After looking at more pictures, Al, I would hop on a plane and go look at the car with some cash in my pocket. Give ZRush a holler and ask about the "Scarab" engine kit. Those prices I posted for cost of restoration will get you pretty close to a concours car. I don't think a Z is all that expensive to get to a show quality level. Chris

I wonderd about those things also, Alan. They made one of each in the begining. Logical, but then what? I assumed the 14th car was a Canada car from what Kats said at the begining ot this thread. The 14th and 15th were Canada cars, supposedly. Then I have noticed that both the Canada cars were silver. 26th and 27th are green. 40th and 42nd are both gold. So I imagined that the construction teams began making cars in pairs or mutiples so as to establish construction proceedure. But I cannot account for the various fitment of engines and I imagine that would have made the greatest impact. How many guesses do I get, Kats?

Geeze! I gotta pay more attention! That's a low VIN Z! Somebody should have PM'd me. Hell yes, I can pipe in on this conversation. Here's my opinion - o p i n i o n. 350, your queston is too vague. Can it be restored? Certainly. What do you mean by "restored"? The answer I'm looking for is a description of what you expect the result to be. Pick up a copy of Humble's book or Reagan's book. Both will tell you to establish a level you are going to be satisfied with. Are you going to drive the car or show it? Are you going to sell the car and try to make money on it? Are you...see what I mean? What do you want from it when you are finished? The next big question is; do you have the time and money to restore it? How do you plan to restore it? Are you going to give it to somebody and come back a year later and write a check? Or, are you going to do everything yourself and sub out the stuff you can't do while you stand over the guy and direct his work? In my opinon, #248 (with matching numbers) restored to the level that the Vintage Zs were restored is going to be worth well over $50,000 in five years. It is going to cost every bit of $35,000 in parts and services to restore the car. The car will be quite literally brand new when you are finished. I have no idea what labor may cost because I'm doing my cars myself, but I could imagine $20,000. Essentially what I am saying is that I believe low VIN Zs are escalating in value such that the value of the completed car will be close to the cost of restoration. So, the rub to all this is that if you took $35,000 and invested it in the stock market, you would probably make more money faster than you would by investing in cars. Investing in cars is like investing in art or gold coins. You will make money in the long run, (could loose also) but the rate of appreciation is probably not going to outpace the rate of inflation by very much. And if you restore the car yourself, you are going to put in a lot of sweat for pennies of return. A job in a coal mine probably pays more. There you go. You answer the "is it worth it" question. I know a few guys who would take this one on. #248 is a '69? Let me know what you decide to do. I see you are in Orlando? Perfect! Let me know if you need a car shipper. I would say exactly what Carl Beck said to me when I bought 27th. "It can't be any worse than the pictures"! Why don't you send me a PM with a phone number and we can talk about this more. Chris

Kats' Your very first thread indicates that the 14th and 15th cars manufactured were "Canada" cars. Then you list how many cars - export and domestic - were made during each month. I don't believe Nissan made PS30s very quickly and suspect they made more S30 model variants to complete their own "domestic" line-up for show and testing. I also believe that Nissan was in the practice of making cars in pairs - two identical cars at a time. Thanks Alan for taking the lead on this quiz. Here are my thoughts: May 1969 - total 2 cars - one domestic, one export: 1 = S30-00001 2 = HLS30-00001 June 1969 - total 1 car - domestic: 3 = PS30-00001 July 1969 - total 4 cars - two domestic, two export: 4 = HS30-00001 5 = S30-00002 6 = S30-00003 7 = HLS30-00002 August 1969 - total 7 cars: 8 = S30-00003 9 = S30-00004 10 = PS30-00003 11 = PS30-00004 12 = S30-00005 13 = S30-00006 14 = HLS30-00003

Oh my! That one is much worse, John. Incorrectness everywhere!

Hey! Happy Birthday, Kats! Does this information suggest that the VIN was stamped by hand and not automated after the chassis was assembled? Or, could this indicate that the firewall metal was stamped individually prior to attachment? Very interesting a spec would be made to the exact location of the VIN. So you have records of the first 14 cars? Very nice!

Thanks Alan, for a very thorough response. Your explanation of my use of the word customize is the same. I was refering to the use of thinner guage sheet steel as well as special tabs and reinforcement plate in the construction of the unibody chassis. The two points I want to reinforce are that Nissan was not in the procedure to make a shell without a VIN at that time and that the unibody chassis consruction was not a fully automated construction process, but rather component assembled using hand techniques. I guess my second point is a little off topic. However, I am not entirely certain of my first assertion. We suspect that at least ten S130 chassis were constructed without VIN, but I believe that policy reflects a different management period at Nissan. Probably a far more advanced - automated - manufacturing process than the S30 as well. Considering the development of manufacuring technique at the time, I would suggest that the VIN stamped in the firewall was as much a manufacturing identity as it was a registration identity and thus my assertion that there is no such thing as an "NOS station wagon body shell" and that the S30 "white body" conversation is a bar-room myth. Standing by to be proven wrong, Chris

$66404 http://eh.net/hmit/ppowerusd/dollar_answer.php

I have seen blue air filters for the 240 Z model and have been told they were air filters sold as replacement parts rather than the air filter that came with the car. The door pull handle on the left is the configuration for RHD. Currently, the only new interior door panels available (if they are any more) fit the RHD models only and come with the holes for the pull handle so the only thing to do is install a pull handle. Nice car! The rear deck carpeting is incorrect and the luggage straps are missing. The shift boot is incorrect as well as the choke knob.

Alan, You have shown me that example, however that is not what I am talking about. It has a VIN therefore it is not a "white" body shell. I am not particularly talking about the color of the coating. I am talking about the VIN. Your example is RLS30-000017 and could never be used as a substitution for another VIN. Here in the States, I believe, Federal law would prohibit a full chassis substitution. Your point about vehicle identity, birth, is well taken in this discussion. That is why I am so taken with the photo of the floor tub. I can not imagine the extent of damage that would cause this assembly to be used as a replacement part. A chassis would have to be literally cut in thirds to install this sub-assembly and I think the photograph is of a manufacturing component; intended for chassis construction rather than replacement part. I think it is quite possible for Nissan to have produced and delivered a 'blank' S30, but I doubt it. It has been pointed out that certain S30 blanks could have been produced and delivered for the use of design study teams. In all probability they would have been disposed of. However, in that respect we have discussed the idea that the very first production 'mules' were without serial number and we are discovering that misconception. I am begining to believe that Nissan did not make a 'blank' S30. Even as customized as they were, the rally cars had VINs. How about all the 432-Rs? The school cars. The pace cars? Did they all have VINs?

Yes, we all have things we would rather not publish on the internet. I believe it is called "collector's private stock". But we can talk about them and that is what makes this discussion fun. I must say how relieved I am to hear that an S30 was constructed before an HLS30.

I think the seller has been eating mushrooms. That is a stripped out body shell from an old production car if ever I have seen one! No question in my mind. However, the archives of Her Majesty the 26th can shed some light on this discussion. Here are some results from exhaustive research. The Datsun Competition department of Nissan U.S.A. sold ten 280 ZX body shells which lacked VIN to various competition teams of the time such as Electramotive, BSR, Jim Fitzgerald, Logan Blackburn, and Frank Leary. To the best of my knowledge, there are no S30 "white bodies". Please show me an example. Two books discuss the disposition of the tooling for the S30 chassis; "Z-Car, Revival of a Legend", by Seiichi Takarabe and "Mr. K - A Japanese Who Rezalized a Dream in America", by Takashi Ashakawa. Both books were co-authored by Yutaka Katayama. The translated version of "Mr. K" was prepared by Brian and Miho Long, edited by Mike Taylor. ( I have copies if anyone wants to buy one - $25 ) The tooling was destroyed along with most of the production records for reasons having to do with a dispute between Nissan management and labor organizations. An understanding of that issue might be achieved through reading; "William R. Gorham; An American Engineer in Japan, translated by Donald Gorham. I have held in my hands what appear to be factory build records - computer punch cards with Japanese printed text filled in with typed information. As described to me at the time of my holding, these cards came in the box with the wheel covers and very few remain in private collections. The archive endeavors to collect information about the design, tooling, construction, and manufacture of the S30 chassis. To me, the S30 represents the high sophistication of Japanese automotive production technology. A time when automated machining and production techniques were taking place in Japanese industry. The S30 exhibits some remarkable qualities in design such as the symmetry issue to accommodate the export market. Or the accommodations made to the basic chassis for all the various production models. I have yet to find photographs of the body shell construction in the factory. One of my favorite pictures is this floor section for a series two. This component was evidently constructed and supplied as such for fitment to the rear deck sub-assembly and the front firewall / cowl sub-assembly. Notice the hand welding where the components are joined.

Some other shots I have from the Dallas convention. Tetsu san at the autocross and the two cars brought from Japan. Couple of S30 lines at the car show.

Nope! Sorry. You are talking about the other car from Northern Virginia. This is a great shot from Syracuse. The red car in the background is Ed's and won its class. The Silver car won a Gold Cup.

A little advice. Do one side at a time and bolt the transmission mount into the tunnel while you weld in the new floors. Either string the chassis to align the frame rail, or bolt up the cross member to align the the location of the control arm mount. http://www.datsunzparts.com/start.htm

I am reading this conversation with great delight.

Is this the car you are talking about, Bob? I believe it lives in Pennsilvania. Took first in stock last year in Syracuse.

Thought you all would get a kick out of this article from "Studio Photography" magazine. This publication targets the business aspect of photography and professional photographers. Although I am neither a pro nor in business as such. This might help your fun with cars this summer. Chris

That was Sarasota twenty years ago, Palmer. You should see this place now. It's doubling again! But back to the issue, the end nut, washer and cotter pin assembly essentially hold the wheel on, yes. The nut is tightened to allow the hub to spin freely and the cotter pin holds the nut in that position. As wheel bearings wear, the nut can be adjusted periodically. The concern you may have about a wheel falling off are nill. The forces in that area are applied across the faces of the wheel bearing - not the spindle nut.

Japanese guys! :laugh: I recognize the PS-30 and the HS30-H. When you click on the photo gallery the screen shows 7 dealer brochure covers for the individual models. I just bought the 350Z brochure on the bottom right. It is hard bound 8" square. It folds opent to two stapled booklets inside and a loose "options" catalog. All written in Japanese.

Hey Fred! Check out Hart Photography http://www.hart-photography.com/photocart/index.php?do=photocart&viewImage=6948 There are some good pictures of Todd in the proofs. He was yellow run group. Down at the bottom right of the screen is a selection box for various galleries. There are also some great shots on www.twinturbo.net