jakay11

1970 Series1 240z "barnfind"

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    11 hours ago, jakay11 said:

    Waitlist...

    So, not "purchased new" on "July 11th 1970". An order was placed, a reservation was made - not a purchase.

    It might seem like splitting hairs, but this car simply didn't exist at that point - so it could not have been "purchased new" on that date.

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    9 hours ago, HS30-H said:

    So, not "purchased new" on "July 11th 1970". An order was placed, a reservation was made - not a purchase.

    It might seem like splitting hairs, but this car simply didn't exist at that point - so it could not have been "purchased new" on that date.

    So without meaning to sound like a d***, yes you are correct - just like buying a house - the contract date is not the "purchase" date even though that is when the transaction started, and Purchase Date is usually the closing date when keys are delivered and ownership is transferred.  If you want to split hairs and be precise, this is what I understand (considering that this car was built T -4yrs my age and I wasn't around to verify):

    Down payment and contract to buy was signed July 11th 1970 (shortly after the brakes failed on my father's 1969 AMX Javelin (6 mo after he had gotten it) - The contract probably has Bob Sharp's fingerprints or DNA on it somewhere as they knew each other... 🙂

    Car was built in Dec of 1970, and shipped to Newark NJ (port of entry), was delivered 2/18/71 and was Titled 2/22/71 as a 1971 car.

      Of particular interest is the receipt for repairs that suggest steering vibration and shock failure so soon after delivery - that's when the Konis were installed... Jake did either or both that repair and/or the exhaust.

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    HS30 loves to split hairs and other things.  Serious.  Don't get caught up.  He has an early Z and is incredibly protective of the brand and model.  There are a few other guys that might join in also.  A tiny club of early Z owners.  You might have to pick a side.

     

    What are your plans for the car?

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    6 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

    HS30 loves to split hairs and other things.  Serious.  Don't get caught up.  He has an early Z and is incredibly protective of the brand and model.  There are a few other guys that might join in also.  A tiny club of early Z owners.  You might have to pick a side.

     

    What are your plans for the car?

    Since I don't know what side I'm picking, I'm just letting that one go for now.

    Plans are simple so far - Ship car from NJ to Colorado, get it running again, make it safe.  (It was last road registered in 1980, last driven in 1986 to a shop and back.)

    After that use the car for a bit, and it suss out.  No crazy mods (just make it run on unleaded safely without additives) - I need to see what it's like before I know where I'm going with it.  Right now I forsee 2 main options - leave it as a time capsule and get it running or refresh it and make it "new" (I hate the idea of concourse level of better than new) - This is of course a (period) modified car so it will not be brought back to factory (I'm assuming period mods by such a famous shop as BSR only add to the providence)  I am a bit staggered by the value of the vehicle that Haggerty has put on the car though!

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    No need to pick any side really.  Just wanted to give you a heads up.  Conversations can take a turn for the worse when these early cars come up.

    Some people like the full restore, others like some original history.  And, there are others who would love that car for a V8 conversion, because it's so clean and rust-free.

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    So to answer that question - this particular car will probably be more original history assuming it can stay that way (and I don't see why not right now).

    I'd get a different car as a track toy for vintage racing / bombing around the canyons or as a project toy

    As for V8 conversion - (LT1?  Maybe keep that for a NA Miata). Not unless it was already done (I'd be afraid of upsetting the chassis dynamics with too much weight in the nose and too much power for the drivetrain/ tires to handle - btdt)...

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    It has more to do with the people who like to see things described properly.  The title of the thread piqued my interest only to find out that the car isn't.  I'm happy that you inherited a low mileage early car, and it's a very pretty car, but I would encourage you, jakay11, to learn a little more about your car and appreciate what you have.  BTW, the interior is not leather.

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    Is your Z really the "26th" Z?  I used the serial number to designate the lineage of somebody's Z, like you're doing with your screen name, and HS30 tried to correct me.  Should we go down the rabbit hole?  Should you change your screen name to be correct?

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    I'm just playing around jakay.  I love a good logic debate.  Words and what they mean.  I Google a lot.  Good luck.

    Too bad you couldn't have made it down to the ZCON in Atlanta.  The car probably would have been a hit down there.  

     

     

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    2 hours ago, jakay11 said:

    So without meaning to sound like a d***, yes you are correct - just like buying a house - the contract date is not the "purchase" date even though that is when the transaction started, and Purchase Date is usually the closing date when keys are delivered and ownership is transferred.  If you want to split hairs and be precise, this is what I understand (considering that this car was built T -4yrs my age and I wasn't around to verify):

     

    The analogy with buying a house doesn't really work. The house (presumably) already exists, is in a fixed location and has been seen and approved by the purchaser. The car in question was months away from being made, and was not even a 'bespoke' order. He may have expressed a preference for body colour, and not a lot else. Nissan did not have a special day set aside to make 'Mr Magoo from Chattanooga's red 240Z'. 

    The reason that some of us get pernickety about this kind of thing is that all sorts of false claims and implications can arise from such false assertions. One of them was a well known commentator on the marque who insisted that 240Zs could be "purchased" in the USA in 1969, when in fact there were no standard production cars available for purchase from dealerships in the USA until well into 1970.

    Yes it's pointless hair-splitting to some, but that's what we do. If we don't get it right, then who will...?   

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    48 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

    Is your Z really the "26th" Z?  I used the serial number to designate the lineage of somebody's Z, like you're doing with your screen name, and HS30 tried to correct me.

    I was right and you were wrong, and '26th-Z' can choose whatever soubriquet he likes as his forum user name.

    Simple.

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    For all of Alan's Alan-isims, you have to love and respect him.  He is a great resource and shares a lot of interesting information that few in the world have.

     

    We are a band of brothers and sisters here..... life is too short to waste time bickering. Just look for someone's good points and life will be better for all....

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    Ok, some updates for those of you who care...

    Goal: make car usable (ie, keep the drum rears and not upgrade to discs, and no a v8 will not be installed either.)

    So, New Odyssey battery has been ordered (the one from 1986 has given up the ghost)
    The gas tank was drained - it was, nearly full tank (which is good and minimizes the risk of internal rust... it smelled pretty funky, but had nearly no shellac/slime/sludge.  Thank you dad for putting in fuel stabilizer! 
    The Rear drums were removed, both rear brake cyl shot (the little rubber thingie was crumbling and dry white powder came tumbling out - not THAT  kind, the aluminum oxide / dried brake fluid kind.
    Poking into the Master, slave & clutch cylinders - they gunked / slimed / melted the rubber pretty well, and so were replaced with new.
    Front Right disk was frozen (and needs help - not sure if can be rebuilt, so an early replacement caliper set found and ordered - I haven't gotten to the left front yet.
    The Front solex carb was removed and cleaned and is deemed "good".  The rear solex, well the carb choke is frozen.  Solid. Not sure it can be taken apart to be freed so an early carb set was located and ordered.
     
    The clutch was bled & now works again.
     
    Still to do: Finish rebuilding / reinstall the carbs. Check driver-side caliper, flush brakes, flush fuel lines.
     
    For those of you who want pictures, I have a few (and a few movies too)
     
    In the library, you'll see the period-correct narrow-gage headers (thank you BSR), and the Sempereti tires (from Ireland) are still deemed healthy (?!) mounted on American rims (from Japan)
     
    And for those of you who have pedantic tendencies, the state of Colorado has declared that this car is a 1970, based on the mfg build date (that's what they could see when they did the vin check).   Go discuss among yourselves - I'm not arguing it with bureaucrats.
    <'flame on/>
     
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    My 71 (same  month build as your car) after sitting garaged for 14 years had frozen wheel cylinders. If you don't care about pure correctness you can use the 73-76 style cylinders, they're like $50 vs $240 @ MSA (the $165 ones are NLA). Had to do a little bend mod on  the hard line, but that was no big deal.

     

     

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    Hi Jason:

    Great story - thanks for sharing and a really wonderful 240Z. A few comments…

     

     - I can’t see any reason that rear carb can’t be disassembled and restored. I would encourage you to do whatever is necessary to retain all original parts on the Z. Keep all the original take off parts from your Fathers garage with the car as well. For sure, keep the Bob Sharp license plate frame!!

     

    - Make sure you keep the original Date Stamped Spark Pug wires and every original hose clamp etc.(the difference on value for an all “original” Z, for all these very small details can be several thousand dollars).

     

    - I believe the aluminum wheels are Appliance - not American 

     

    - With a 24K original miles and original paint on a one family owned 70 240Z - I would have an Agreed Value of at least $50K with Hagerty. The Z is impossible to replace in terms of its history with you and your family - Nonetheless given todays market you, would most likely spend a year or more looking for a replacement of equal condition, and a year from now that might cost you $65K or more to purchase. (go find another original with 24K miles). 

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    On 11/17/2018 at 7:29 PM, w3wilkes said:

    My 71 (same  month build as your car) after sitting garaged for 14 years had frozen wheel cylinders. If you don't care about pure correctness you can use the 73-76 style cylinders, they're like $50 vs $240 @ MSA (the $165 ones are NLA). Had to do a little bend mod on  the hard line, but that was no big deal.

     

     

    Yup, has the frozen wheel cylinders.  If it wasn't "This Car" I'd probably just do an upgrade to discs.  But this being what it is, I've bitten the bullet and gone and ordered the early ones...

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    11 hours ago, Carl Beck said:

    Hi Jason:

    Great story - thanks for sharing and a really wonderful 240Z. A few comments…

     

     - I can’t see any reason that rear carb can’t be disassembled and restored. I would encourage you to do whatever is necessary to retain all original parts on the Z. Keep all the original take off parts from your Fathers garage with the car as well. For sure, keep the Bob Sharp license plate frame!!

     

    - Make sure you keep the original Date Stamped Spark Pug wires and every original hose clamp etc.(the difference on value for an all “original” Z, for all these very small details can be several thousand dollars).

     

    - I believe the aluminum wheels are Appliance - not American 

     

    - With a 24K original miles and original paint on a one family owned 70 240Z - I would have an Agreed Value of at least $50K with Hagerty. The Z is impossible to replace in terms of its history with you and your family - Nonetheless given todays market you, would most likely spend a year or more looking for a replacement of equal condition, and a year from now that might cost you $65K or more to purchase. (go find another original with 24K miles). 

    Yup, We're keeping all the original parts, wires, ect.  All the original clamps (which are a PITA to work on!) are going back on too.

    (and yes, you are correct on the wheels!)

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    You can get original looking wire clamps off Ebay too if some of yours get too bad.

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    Latest Update:  

    New caliper (front) installed.
    rear wheel brake cylinders (early style) were replaced.
    problem carb was disassembled (not easy considering 30+ years of varnish) - improper idle circuit was corrected.
    new battery installed.
    electrics tested (no issues!)
    engine started (note acorn bazooka out back in the Google Drive library of photos and videos)
    Fuel lines plugged - (car was run for ~2-3s by adding fuel to float bowl)
    Tank dropped and cleaned (new fuel lines ordered)
    Exhaust from cat-back is badly rusted and crumbling (to be rebuilt)

    Areas of concern:
    valve springs (once running, keep it gentle at moderate rpm to break everything back in - some of those springs have been compressed for over 30yrs)
    cyl bore rust & blow-by (if springs compressed = valves open...)
     

    Question for forum:

    The chassis / underside is coated in surface rust - should this be cleaned up and powder-coated (non-original for preservation) - or should this be left alone (original)?

     

    Thanks! & happy viewing

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