Wanted: 240z (preferably modified) - Cash Waiting

[Jay.]

3 hours ago, Zed Head said:

To Detroit or England (shipping docks)?  Thought your brother was going to hoon around Michigan for a while.  Interested in what it takes to get it to England.  Could be educational.

That floorboard rust is still wet.  Leaks!  Common.

To England, in the end there was too much hassle involved getting it legally driven as he doesnt have his own insurance and we couldn't get anyone to insure him

 

I'll get a detailed account on how everything goes and put it up here as I'm sure it might be useful for people in the future 

 

3 hours ago, wheee! said:

You are starting with a normal condition Datsun! They all have issues. Some more than others. Yours looks manageable. Congrats!!

I hope so! 

 

1 hour ago, rturbo 930 said:

Not to rain on your parade, but I think you're going to find a couple unwelcome rusty surprises on that one. But if you're happy with it, it could still be a good base for a swapped project car. Congrats on the purchase.

Where in particular do you think? 

[grannyknot]

Beautiful colour, fun engine but I think once you get it home you should carve out some time and money to strip the car to the shell and fix all the rust, there is going to be more than what you see right now that is for sure.  Personally, I can't relax until the rust has been taken care of. You are certainly not going to find many cars like that at your local show and shine, congrats.

[rturbo 930]

8 hours ago, Jay. said:

Where in particular do you think? 

Last two pictures where the paint/coating is peeling. Also just because it's a Datsun, and we know that it has rust, and has had rust in the past that has been fixed. It's always worse than it looks.

Case in point, when I got my 280Z, I was stripping it down, and I removed the stainless sill plates. Nothing underneath. In another case, I bought my series 1 240Z thinking it had only minor rust. After all, I bought it because my 280Z had too much rust. Now I'm fixing the 280Z because the 240Z has too much rust. Although you wouldn't think so at a glance, it's beyond repair, I think, which is a shame.

I'll second what grannyknot said about stripping and fixing it. Drive it a bit first though. Or will it not pass MOT as it sits?

Edited July 9, 2017 by rturbo 930

[Jay.]

9 hours ago, rturbo 930 said:

Last two pictures where the paint/coating is peeling. Also just because it's a Datsun, and we know that it has rust, and has had rust in the past that has been fixed. It's always worse than it looks.

Case in point, when I got my 280Z, I was stripping it down, and I removed the stainless sill plates. Nothing underneath. In another case, I bought my series 1 240Z thinking it had only minor rust. After all, I bought it because my 280Z had too much rust. Now I'm fixing the 280Z because the 240Z has too much rust. Although you wouldn't think so at a glance, it's beyond repair, I think, which is a shame.

I'll second what grannyknot said about stripping and fixing it. Drive it a bit first though. Or will it not pass MOT as it sits?

Ah yeh I'm sort of bracing myself to find more of It, but as you mentioned I'd like to drive it around a bit to enjoy the car which will motivate me to strip it down when the weather starts to turn

At what point did you decide it was too much? Any parts in particular?

The only concern for passing an MOT will be the rear dogleg as that's probably going to he deemed structural. I'll be able to see that better in person.

There's also a few changes to the lights, signals and minor things that will need to be done before it's legal over here too.. I'll document those for people in the future too

Edited July 9, 2017 by Jay.

[Jay.]

16 hours ago, grannyknot said:

Beautiful colour, fun engine but I think once you get it home you should carve out some time and money to strip the car to the shell and fix all the rust, there is going to be more than what you see right now that is for sure.  Personally, I can't relax until the rust has been taken care of. You are certainly not going to find many cars like that at your local show and shine, congrats.

I certainly hope so! My goal would definitely be to get all the rust sorted, but it would be nice to have a bit of driving time before putting it into the workshop 

Originally I had thought of getting it professionally done, however I might get a welder and learn as and appears to be a bit of a recurring theme! 

Is POR15 still the way to go to get it undersealed?

[rturbo 930]

1 hour ago, Jay. said:

I certainly hope so! My goal would definitely be to get all the rust sorted, but it would be nice to have a bit of driving time before putting it into the workshop 

Originally I had thought of getting it professionally done, however I might get a welder and learn as and appears to be a bit of a recurring theme! 

Is POR15 still the way to go to get it undersealed?

Doing the metal work yourself is not a bad idea. Obviously you'll want to practice beforehand to make sure you're getting proper penetration, and that sort of thing (still need to take the class myself). Maybe see if there's a welding class in the area? Good thing to do while you're waiting for it to arrive.

As for POR15, I'm sure some will disagree with me and say it's fine, but honestly, I think many people use it in place of a more appropriate product. POR15 is a rust encapsulator, and is actually intended to go on rusty metal, and not clean metal. I've heard of people applying it to perfectly clean and smooth metal only to have it peel back off. Additionally, if for whatever reason you coat the floors or underside in POR15 and later want/need to modify that area, I've heard it's an absolute bitch to remove. I recall John C saying that if the floors of a car were coated in POR15, that he would rather cut out and replace the floors than try to remove the coating. I would instead suggest products that are intended to be used as an undercoat. I haven't gotten to that point in my project so I haven't researched this in depth, but I'm guessing you will want to do epoxy primer, paint, and finally a quality undercoat. I'm not sure if 240Zs actually had an undercoat from the factory. My 240Z isn't undercoated, but my 280Z is.

[Mark Maras]

 Metal work is similar to paint work. Prep work is critical. Clean sheet metal and the proper 1/32" - 1/16" gap between the pieces will ensure good penetration and a good looking weld. Do have a mig welder?

[grannyknot]

I use to think POR15 was the catsass and I have used it a lot but if not applied EXACTLY as they recommend you will end up with problems. Now I have gone back to 2 part epoxy primmer and virtually any top coat  just as most pro paint shop do. As has already been mentioned, Prep is everything.

[wheee!]

I was going to use it on the bottom of my car too. Then I went 2 part DTM primer and I am glad I did.
I did use POR 15 on the interior though. I never want to work on that floor again! The POR I used was the silver kind with extra metal. Superstrong and basically a lifetime application. The next step is soundmat and then carpet.

[Jay.]

5 hours ago, rturbo 930 said:

Doing the metal work yourself is not a bad idea. Obviously you'll want to practice beforehand to make sure you're getting proper penetration, and that sort of thing (still need to take the class myself). Maybe see if there's a welding class in the area? Good thing to do while you're waiting for it to arrive.

As for POR15, I'm sure some will disagree with me and say it's fine, but honestly, I think many people use it in place of a more appropriate product. POR15 is a rust encapsulator, and is actually intended to go on rusty metal, and not clean metal. I've heard of people applying it to perfectly clean and smooth metal only to have it peel back off. Additionally, if for whatever reason you coat the floors or underside in POR15 and later want/need to modify that area, I've heard it's an absolute bitch to remove. I recall John C saying that if the floors of a car were coated in POR15, that he would rather cut out and replace the floors than try to remove the coating. I would instead suggest products that are intended to be used as an undercoat. I haven't gotten to that point in my project so I haven't researched this in depth, but I'm guessing you will want to do epoxy primer, paint, and finally a quality undercoat. I'm not sure if 240Zs actually had an undercoat from the factory. My 240Z isn't undercoated, but my 280Z is.

That's a great idea. My dad learnt to weld when we were doing up an old Miata, so I'm sure he'd be keen to give me some tips too. As for POR15, having a read and it appears you're right, best for rusting areas as opposed to rust-free. I'll look at some other products.

 

5 hours ago, Mark Maras said:

 Metal work is similar to paint work. Prep work is critical. Clean sheet metal and the proper 1/32" - 1/16" gap between the pieces will ensure good penetration and a good looking weld. Do have a mig welder?

Is it worth just using normal sheet metal or opting to get some replacement panels instead? .. I guess it saves fabrication and bending, but also costs more. 

I did have a MIG welder, or rather my Dad did, but it got stolen about 3 months ago! Insurance money popped through so I'll convince him to replace it

36 minutes ago, grannyknot said:

I use to think POR15 was the catsass and I have used it a lot but if not applied EXACTLY as they recommend you will end up with problems. Now I have gone back to 2 part epoxy primmer and virtually any top coat  just as most pro paint shop do. As has already been mentioned, Prep is everything.

Would you opt to do that on the underside too? I guess the benefit of a decent underseal is it applys pretty easily anywhere. 

 

14 minutes ago, wheee! said:

I was going to use it on the bottom of my car too. Then I went 2 part DTM primer and I am glad I did.
I did use POR 15 on the interior though. I never want to work on that floor again! The POR I used was the silver kind with extra metal. Superstrong and basically a lifetime application. The next step is soundmat and then carpet.

Did you get some pics of that? .. 

It appears the soundmat is one of the causes for the rust, as it's trapped in the moisture! Although I guess the 'root' cause would be a leak somewhere

[rturbo 930]

18 hours ago, Jay. said:

Is it worth just using normal sheet metal or opting to get some replacement panels instead? .. I guess it saves fabrication and bending, but also costs more.

Depends on the panel and what it needs. Rockers are okay. Floors seem to be good. Dog legs are okay. Rear lower quarters are awful, the compound curve at the rear corner is way off. Basically they're a mixed bag. Not necessarily better to get a panel vs patching and fabricating. Tabco makes most of the replacement panels and I wouldn't call them high quality.

Edited July 10, 2017 by rturbo 930

[wheee!]

Did you get some pics of that? .. 
It appears the soundmat is one of the causes for the rust, as it's trapped in the moisture! Although I guess the 'root' cause would be a leak somewhere

My thread has all the steps up to the POR for the floor boards. I haven't installed the sound mat yet. POR hardens with moisture but I don't anticipate any interior leaks.
Moisture will come from wet boots etc, but I don't anticipate any wet cold weather use for this car!
If anything gets through the floor mat, then the jute, then the butyl foam sound barrier, then the foil butyl sound mat, and THEN through the steel reinforced POR.... rust might happen. But I doubt it.