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Hardway

Series-1 Hatch Vent Duct Clips & Restoration Info Needed

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Yes. "Hoover" is the proper Datsun terminology for the part (inclusive). "Hoover" is a little old school, however. "Dyson" would be a more modern term.

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I've never seen a metal hatch grill. I have lots of early metal emblems but no metal hatch grills. I've owned a 71 & 72 510 wagon with hatch grills and I believe both are plastic as well.

Chuck

 

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Hi Kats!!

Thanks for joining in. Your thoughts are appreciated. You know these cars so well and your photos are the best!

I simply must get a decent camera someday soon---the clarity and depth of your photos are most real.

Was the foam attached to your ductwork when you received it in the package or did you apply it?

The boxes say "Packing Duct" on them and have the  part number 90827-E4100.

The clips shown in your photos are identical to those I found in the bag of my NOS duct assembly but they were loose---not attached.

I may have to "eat some crow" here about these clips----

I am confident that the early clips spanned the assembly parts and clipped over the top outside of the hatch opening surface to hold it all securely---as the close-up photo Jim Arnett @jfa.series1 provided of the clip on the  car hatch vent opening.

Now I am thinking that at some point Nissan redesigned the method of attachment such that the entire assembly is inside the hatch and the only fastening method was the pins on the finisher grill going through the holes in the hatch to engage the clip---which doesn't seem as secure to me--- but could be adequate as long as the pins are intact and not compromised. This method would not use a barrel clip on the pins as the speed nut clip has a "pin gripping" feature to it already.

     @katsDo you have any thoughts about the differences between these clips and the method of attachment? 

 

Jim D.

 

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What finish if any did the original clips have on them?  Zup's pictures look like either raw spring steel or possible old black paint.  I have revised the request for quote to the fab shop, asking for spring steel instead of stainless.  Additionally, they offer on-site powder coating but that is not an original finish.  I have asked what the cost would be to have them clear zinc plated.  They offer yellow zinc too which I know a lot of guys like but I believe it would be best to offer them in an original finish.  What do you think?

Edited by Hardway

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32 minutes ago, Hardway said:

What finish if any did the original clips have on them?  Zup's pictures look like either raw spring steel or possible old black paint.  I have revised the request for quote to the fab shop, asking for spring steel instead of stainless.  Additionally, they offer on-site powder coating but that is not an original finish.  I have asked what the cost would be to have them clear zinc plated.  They offer yellow zinc too which I know a lot of guys like but I believe it would be best to offer them in an original finish.  What do you think?

When I tore my car down, the clips were in a patina finish LOL.  I suspect they were originally unfinished spring steel.  I would opt for either a gloss black finish or clear zinc since most but not all the plated items aft of the firewall are clear zinc finish.

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+1 on spring steel with clear zinc if possible---if not, phosphorous (dark brown to black)

My originals did not appear to be plated at all---just spring steel but I treated them with Ospho to try to prevent them from corroding further. That turned them the color you see.

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Hi Jim, I need to look and think carefully.

Chris, I leaned "Hoover" , thank you. Can I say Hoover for a person who eats a lot?

The foam (Packing 90827-E4100) was already attached ,and the yellow zinc speed nuts (Nut spring 08961-43210) were already attached too.

I think the speed nut (08961-43210) , it`s role is to combine two plastic duct part in one. And,

Nissan might intent the speed nut catches the pin of the outer grill, but I doubt like Jim, looking at my spare duct, the speed nut needs to be bent more for better catching.  But still I do not know it can.

Then ,the whole duct assy needs a black barrel crip (CLIP tail gate ventilator 90829-E4100) to secure the assy on the top outside of the hatch opening surface.

Also, the outer grill trim needs tubular clip (CLIP tubular 63845-18000) to secure it on the tail gate,( or secure with the barrel clip) but this is not mentioned on the parts catalog.

My Blue 240Z and Z432 both have same method, tubular clip for secureing the outer grill.

Please see attached pictures, the earliest Fairlady-Z parts catalog does not list all of the hardware which required .

1972 issued one describes much better,  on the other hand, the early DATSUN 240Z parts catalog does not describe correctly, even it says secure the outer grill with the tapping screw !

Kats 

PS  About 5th picture, #14 barrel crip (90829-E4100) and #40  speed nut (08961-43210) they should be switched their location each other in the diagram.

ps30-00088 124 (2).jpg

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Edited by kats
" the top outside of the hatch opening surface "
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Ok, So now I'm confused. Are there two sets of clips? Two on the "hoover" vent section (90829-E4100)  and two on the hatch opening (08961-43210)? That's what Kats diagrams appear to show because they have different call numbers. If so what retains each? Do the Grill Assembly (90950-E4100)  pins connect both clips to the hatch?

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Patcon ,yes two sets of clips are required, 

the diagram need to be amended  , #14 and #40 should be swapped their location.

Kats

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44 minutes ago, Patcon said:

Thanks Kats

You're well come, here are pictures which note added

Kats

cliptailgateventilator.jpg

clip90829E4100.jpg

katsspare.jpg

nutspring0896143210.jpg

diagramtailgate.jpg

Edited by kats
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Thanks to you Kats!!

You Sir, are the best!

You have filled in all the missing information with your perfect documentation.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Jim D.

"Zup"

 

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MIND BLOWN!!!  Thank you Kats for adding the detail to the pictures.  The nut spring 08961-43210 looks like a fairly common piece.  In fact, I think I have some that came with a body hardware kit for something.  I will have to look tomorrow after work.

I should hopefully have the quote for the clips from the fab shop tomorrow.  I will keep everyone posted.

Edited by Hardway
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Thank you Jim and Hardway, I was drawing this a while ago , but now no need , everyone's conversations drew the answer .

Kats

IMG_8065.JPG

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Okay, I got the quote back from the shop and the breakdown is below.  These are spring steel, not stainless steel.

Qty. 100 without plating (bare spring steel) $6.92/ea.  With clear zinc plating, $7.93/ea.

Qty. 200 without plating (bare spring steel) $5.97/ea.  With clear zinc plating, $6.47/ea.

As you can see, there is a price cut for going with 200.  I would have to of course pay for the full run upfront or once complete, I would need one clip from someone for them to prototype off of, and it would be a 5 week turn around once everything is signed.  Shipping would be $5/set to anywhere in the cont. US including the small padded envelope and I would add $5/set for my time.  Since each car needs 4 clips the math would work out to the following.

Plated: $41.72/set   Not Plated: $37.68/set  This is based on a qty. of 100 as I do not want to be sitting on a mass inventory of clips that may never sell.  I show this because I want to be 100% transparent and show everyone what it really costs to get this kind of work done.  So the question is, are the prices beyond what people would pay?  Would you prefer plated or bare steel?  Who would send me a clip to borrow?  I would give you a discount on a set of clips of which we can talk about.

Edited by Hardway

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The extra for plating is worth it. I'll go for two sets.  My Z is in storage 130km away so I can not send clip samples.

It would be good to have the manufacturer test the first few for correct fit before they whip off 200. 

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I will gladly provide the sample if it will be returned un-damaged.

You could have it in hand on Monday if this proceeds well.

I'm in for a set of cad plated.

If it is required for the "test fit", I could send the entire NOS ductwork assembly I have as the "mule" provided as above.

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Thank you Zup.  I think they just need the clip to take exact measurements.  I would make sure you would get it back in original condition.  We can draw up an agreement around it if you like.  I will PM you all of my contact information.  I think I am going to do the run of 100 first with the clear zinc as the corrosion protection seems worth it, that would create 25 sets and I believe all of those would sell. 50 sets is a tough sell unless everyone believes the demand is there. 

Edited by Hardway

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I had some time to dig around in the garage and found some spring nuts as Nissan calls them.  I believe this kind of hardware is very common, we just need to know the dimensions of the OEM pieces.  Once this is known, a suitable replacement can surely be located.  No need to have these fab'd up.  Below are some pictures of what I found in my stash.  I probably have more in other places but this should help.  US nickel for reference.

CaptureNuts01.jpg

CaptureNuts02.jpg

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A big thank you to Zup for supplying the OEM clip and spring nut.  I have dropped it off and signed the paper work for production work.  Once they create 1 I will go inspect it to give the green light on moving forward with the other 99.  I am doing a run of 100, clear zinc plated, made of spring steel.  It will be 4-5 weeks until I see the first one to inspect.  I am hoping to make it to Fastenal and Grainger tomorrow or Friday to see if a spring nut is available that closely matches the OEM that Zup sent me.  Once the full run of clips are done I will post up all the details in the Garage Business forum.

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