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5 speed tranny, any ideas?


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I am going to go take a close look at mine today and see if I can see any marks on the shifter (before I try to install the trans).

Edited by Dave WM
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I took a quick measurement of the two.

The long snout is 2" from the very bottom to the center of the hole.

The short one is 1 3/4".  So a quarter of an inch difference is what I'm seeing.

The ZX one with the square hole and spring is what I'm using now, it works the best to me.  It's in the car now and I have a two o'clock alignment appointment so I can't measure that one yet.  Maybe tonight?

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I looked at mine I just cant see how it could possibly hit anything. I will get a video up later to try and clarify. I assume the interference is with the transmission and NOT the car tunnel? based on where the grind marks it would be pretty deep in the shift part (cast iron part). I don't see how a different length would even work unless the short one is just barely catching the shift rod while the long one fully seats. Ok checked 1.75 or 1 3/4 inch.

Edited by Dave WM
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Yes it hits the cast iron part. I don't understand how that works either, sorry.  I've been driving it all morning and have decided to have the longer one welded to the short snout one that works in 5th gear.  The rubber boot under the leather boot has already torn with the straighter shifter. 8^(

One step forward two steps backwards.  Makes me want to drink! (doesn't take much, a mosquito bite?)

Anyway she's getting aligned as I type.

20160516_134722.jpg

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ok I get it completely now, saw the same marks, used a dermal drum sander to reshape along the problem areas. Remove a little bit go check do again.

Now I can shift and clearly see the detents are locking in before the shifter comes into contact with the oval hole on the striker rod head (that is where the marks come from. Glad I did this before installing, its much easier to see what happening with a bright light and getting close in.

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After looking at a few 5spd shift rods they all have some kind of mark on them.  The ones with the square opening and spring do not.  maybe Nissan saw this and did a fix?

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the dia of the shaft looks noticeably smaller on the ZX shifter, try measuring up from the bottom to the marks and get a dia there, then do the same on the ZX shifter.

On my ZX trans the rev idler gear was pretty chewed up. I noticed when the trans was apart that even when fully engaged the rev idler was only about 70% at best in mesh with the main shaft straight cut gear. I also noticed that the rev position of the shifter was the worst position for the clearance issue (marks). I wonder if when shifting the reverse gear was even less engaged than the amount noted when I had it apart? Anyway I have ground it such that I can fully engage reverse now as well with a tiny bit of play left after the detents take over.

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You're right. I'll study it a little more before I go cutting and welding. 

The little reading I did  on the rectangular shifter hole with the spring keeping pressure on it says it keeps vibration out of the shifter rod and the pressure from the spring keeps it in the neutural position when not in gear. 

Thank you for your input, it helps my decision making. 8^)

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The design looks to me to be an attempt to allow the bearing cup on the end of the shifter to move in a more lateral motion to stay fully engaged in the shift rod head. The fixed pivot point of the Z shifter the bearing cup will move in an arc line, slightly pulling away from the shift rod head when not in neutral. I would have assumed this was accounted for in the design of the orig shifter and not have been enough to cause a problem. The movable pivot point on the latter resolves this by extending the radius line as it moves off neutral, but I would think at the same time in introduces more plastic wear surface into the entire mechanism, fine in the short run but likely to get loose with a lot of use. Engineers love to change things (star trek the motion picture).

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Just to clarify the shifter difference I had posted. That was what my problem was on my 1978

280 5 speed install. Not a ZX gearbox. I thought you had the same 5 speed I had.

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The ZX transmission Cliff installed in his 240Z is out of a 2+2 and for all intention purposes its the same as the 280Z wide ratio. The 2+2 came with the 240mm clutch and wide ratio 5 speed transmission.

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Pretty sure they stopped using the "wide-ratio" in 1980.  The 1979 ZX has the 280Z wide-ratio, but after that they're all close-ratio.  I have a close-ratio transmission from 1981 2+2 5 speed in my car.  But it does have the .773 5th gear ratio of the 1980 ZX.  Maybe an early 81 or a transplant.

Still, I think that the exhaust hangers and the speedo bolt will tell the story.  I don't think that there are any wide-ratio 5 speeds out there with the later ZX tail shaft housing.  Could be wrong of course, especially considering KDMatt's recent oddball box,, but I can't see why Nissan would make a partial transition to the ZX boxes.

Of course, we all know that after 35+ years, year of car loses importance also.  Count those hangers, check that bolt.

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Have been at the mosquito infested junkyard all day. I have a good rubber boot now so no fumes can get in. Also got a couple of shifters to experiment with.

My transmission is a wide 5spd with two exhaust hangers at the tail. I can't explain why but it only works with the short snout shifter or fifth gear only works with the shorter one.

I'm going to grind the junkyard one where the scratches are and see if that'll work. If not I will have them cut and welded together.

Everything I've read says the long snout will work fine. I don't understand why mine won't? It only works with the close ratio shifter with the short snout.

I come home and find my puppy got bored and chewed my carpet up while I was gone. Another day another project. LOL

20160517_150805.jpg

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12 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

Everything I've read says the long snout will work fine. I don't understand why mine won't? It only works with the close ratio shifter with the short snout.

Hmmm...  Well here's something to worry about then - maybe the nut on the shaft really is coming loose and the ZX shifter is just allowing it to work.  Pushng the synchro sleeve farther so that it grabs the gear,which is trying to get away.  I don't know how you'd diagnose that.  Maybe a bore scope through the speedo gear hole.  Better keep an ear on things.

OR, the long shaft lever is for 4 speeds only.  If you get some good measurements I can see if I have a long shaft or short shaft wide-ratio bent lever, that worked with my early wide-ratio 5 speed.

That carpet needed chewing!  Puppy's trying to tell you something.

Edited by Zed Head
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32 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

I come home and find my puppy got bored and chewed my carpet up while I was gone. Another day another project. LOL

Ahh puppies, that'll make you see red...

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Our puppy  is a year old now and still chews shoes, sticks, clothes, electrical cords, fruit that falls off the trees in the yard that he brings in the house, and my arm occasionally.  Good luck on the journey!  From what we read, it will continue until he's two.  Looks like you may have a tile or wood flooring project in your future.

Dennis

 

 

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1 hour ago, psdenno said:

Our puppy  is a year old now and still chews shoes, sticks, clothes, electrical cords, fruit that falls off the trees in the yard that he brings in the house, and my arm occasionally.  Good luck on the journey!  From what we read, it will continue until he's two.  Looks like you may have a tile or wood flooring project in your future.

Dennis

 

 

Ah yeah!  That's exactly what I'll do this Saturday.  I've temporarily cut it out so he won't pull any more up,  the little turd.  I'm trying to remember what you have, is it a Lab?

I have some 16x16 Travertine I'm going to put in front of the door.  After the "chew 'til they're two" phase I want to put that floating fake wood down.  This apartment has got hardwood as the sub floor but carpet or something like the laminate wood acts as an insulator in between upstairs where I live and the garage downstairs.  It's a little quieter up here with some type of floor covering, it was built in the late 50s, it's not too tight. 

middle-grade-travertine.jpg

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3 hours ago, Zed Head said:

That carpet needed chewing!  Puppy's trying to tell you something.

It's Berber!  That's like shag carpet now days.  He's pretty smart but I don't think his interior decorating skills will allow him to live indoors after many more surprises like this. ROFL

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On 5/16/2016 at 4:50 PM, Dave WM said:

ok I get it completely now, saw the same marks, used a dermal drum sander to reshape along the problem areas. Remove a little bit go check do again.

Now I can shift and clearly see the detents are locking in before the shifter comes into contact with the oval hole on the striker rod head (that is where the marks come from. Glad I did this before installing, its much easier to see what happening with a bright light and getting close in.

If I had listened to Dave WM's post here I would be waaaay ahead of the game.  I'm a little slow to try things like he did but that is exactly what fixed mine.  I got a rusty spare to experiment with at the junkyard and ground a little, went 4 feet before it popped out of 5th.  Ground some more, 12ft.  Ground some more, touchdown!  Adjusted the valves too, head looked good.  Thanks for everybodies input, it's tough helping a hard headed guy like me.  I'm trying!

Here's the final grinding that worked,

DSC01450.JPG

Found some good rubber too.

DSC01458.JPG 

 

DSC01432.JPG

DSC01448.JPG

DSC01457.JPG

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18 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

Ah yeah!  That's exactly what I'll do this Saturday.  I've temporarily cut it out so he won't pull any more up,  the little $^!#.  I'm trying to remember what you have, is it a Lab?

I have some 16x16 Travertine I'm going to put in front of the door.  

 

Our chewer is a Cocker Spaniel in a state of perpetual teething.  In fact he just brought another orange in from outside while I was typing this.  That travertine looks really nice!  And puppyproof.  

Dennis

 

 

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4 minutes ago, psdenno said:

Our chewer is a Cocker Spaniel in a state of perpetual teething.  In fact he just brought another orange in from outside while I was typing this.  That travertine looks really nice!  And puppyproof.  

Dennis

 

 

He chews everything, it's crazy.  My female wasn't like this, I miss that dog but I'm liking him more and more.  He's got a personality I'm not used to, sorta goofy like me, clumsy as can be and always ready to play.  I can't afford chew toys the way he goes through them.  I gave him blocks of wood but read that wasn't good to do.  I wish he liked to chew on Zoysia. :)

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4 hours ago, Zed Head said:

That carpet needed chewing!  Puppy's trying to tell you something.

I'm embarrassed after looking at that picture of my carpet!  

There's a window right there and it was casting some strange light plus that was my cell phone.  It's not nasty like it looks in the picture, I promise.

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