Interior Ergonomics

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by Zedrally

Maybe the LHD version with brake on the LH side of the tunnel with matching console was an option after all?

No - this was a specially fabricated conversion just for some of the LHD Works rally cars.

The console was specially fabricated in hand-laid fibreglass by the Competition shop in Japan ( you can see the chopped strand underneath the console if you pry it up ).

Apparently, the Works drivers insisted that the Handbrake be moved on some of the LHD cars. Seems that they could not get on with it on the right side of the tunnel.

Note that this never happened in reverse with the RHD rally cars.

I think you picked out one of the most interesting points about it Mike; the shape of the Console around the side of the lever is obviously clearanced to suit it, and not get in the way of the hand. They went to a lot of trouble to make that part.

Of course, an even more interesting point is whether this would have been legal or not. If the car was homologated for Group 4 with the Handbrake on the right side of the tunnel, then that's where it should have stayed. They were probably hoping that the Monte organisers did not notice, and perhaps they didn't........

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by Zedrally

I suspect the ones that didn't may have been the shipment that was meant to go to the UK.

All the UK-market HS30's came with rear anti roll bars.

Alan T.

[Zedrally]

Originally posted by HS30-H

big snip by Mike...

Of course, an even more interesting point is whether this would have been legal or not. If the car was homologated for Group 4 with the Handbrake on the right side of the tunnel, then that's where it should have stayed. They were probably hoping that the Monte organisers did not notice, and perhaps they didn't........

Alan T.

Ah, you made the point that they only did this on some LHD Rally cars.

Which ones where entered into the Monte? Was this one of them?

My guess would be that they all had this conversion or none of them did as the Scrut's would DEFINATELY smell a rat with both types being present.

Mike

[2ManyZs]

I'd say the reason they moved the handbrake on the ralley cars is that the drivers used the E-brake as a driving tool more than others. They probably used it to lock the rear brakes for a fraction of a second to help rotate the rear of the car. Think of a 90 degree turn on dirt, they would either use it too bring the back end back in line with the front, or to induce oversteer which is the faster way to turn the car on dirt without inducing wheelspin that would hinder their exit speeds from the corner.

Now, why did they put it on the drivers side? My guess is for not only ease of use, not easy to move around while in a tight 6 point harness, but also to make it possible for them to finesse the brakes. I am a bit surprised the ratcheting lock mechanism is still in place though, but thinking about it, with it closer to the driver, it would make it easier to release it if they somehow locked it by mistake.

One of the worst things about having the handle on the right side of the tunnel in a LHD car is when you try to push on the lock and release the brake when it is pulled up very tight. You do have a bit of a time, trying to pull back on the handle when the brake shoes are tight against the drum, all the time trying to manipulate the lock on the top with your thumb.

[Mr Camouflage]

Originally posted by Zedrally

My 240 hasn't got one, but not being sure of it's providence I can't discount it not being taken off.[can't prove it either]!

on the other hand my 260 has.

I suspect the ones that didn't may have been the shipment that was meant to go to the UK.

I had a look in daylight, and it looks like it has been removed. The mounting brackets are still there at the rear of the floorpan.

[Caen Fred]

Humm!, I was looking at a Z32 interior pict, and the handbrake lever is STILL on the right side even for the LHD ??????

Maybe it's really a DATSUN trade?

By the way where is your bonnet/hood release lever on your car ?

I use often a Freelander as a daily driver and it is under the dash still on the right side even so it's a mass market LHD build in this new millenium ???? Tacky Britt... LOL

[MicksZ]

I must say i like having my arm resting on the door handle. Thats why i sit low in the car - only eough to see the top of the bonnet (just).

Parking is a bit interesting - just gotta take my time

As for the handbrake - i (being in AUS) reckon it is good where it is positioned, but i can see where other people may not like it on LHS cars for instance.

If you dont like it - re-position it! You could put it back further, or even mount it (as i have seen) between the door sill and the seat on the other side to where it is originally. There isnt much room down there, but it makes it out of the way!

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by Zedrally

Which ones where entered into the Monte? Was this one of them?

My guess would be that they all had this conversion or none of them did as the Scrut's would DEFINATELY smell a rat with both types being present.

Mike

For the 1971 Monte Carlo Rally, two LHD and one RHD Works car were entered.

For 1972 and 1973 there were only LHD cars. The car in the pics is one of the 1972 entries.

Not sure that the Scrutes would necessarily smell a rat; the conversion looks so good that it looks as though it "should" be that way! Maybe if questioned they would have tried to convince the Scrutes that the LHD was a mirror-image of the RHD car.

Mind you, I'm not so sure that it WOULD have actually been illegal. It might just come down to an interpretation of the rules.

Better not call it a cheat just yet!

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by 2ManyZs

I'd say the reason they moved the handbrake on the ralley cars is that the drivers used the E-brake as a driving tool more than others.

Sorry - here in Europe ( and particularly the UK ) Rallying is so big that we probably tend to forget that its a fairly minor sport in the USA.

The handbrake is indeed one of the most important tools available to a rally driver, and modern WRC rally cars usually utilise a hydraulic setup with a very long lever set close to the driver. Putting it simply, the handbrake is used to unsettle the rear of the car and promote oversteer, to allow the driver to get the car pointing where he wants it to.

Its a given that the rally car drivers would have wanted the handbrake as near at hand as possible. By posting the photos of the modification I was hoping to make the point that the natural positioning of the handbrake on the S30-series Z would seem to be next to the driver ( on the same side of the tunnel as the driver's seat ).

The fact that Nissan made both LHD and RHD cars but didn't move the handbrake position is what puzzles me. They can't both be right can they? My feeling is that the positioning next to the driver ( as evidenced by the modification in the LHD rally cars ) is more natural. Did Nissan think it was not important enough to make both LHD and RHD handbrake positions and their appropriate consoles?

Alan T.

[Sean Dezart]

"Did Nissan think it was not important enough to make both LHD and RHD handbrake positions and their appropriate consoles? "

Money Alan, just money !

[Alfadog]

Yeah, I'd imagine the reason would simply be cutting costs.

[HS30-H]

That doesn't add up for me.

Naturally they would have been trying to save money, but look how many other components were "handed" for LHD and RHD versions. The whole base started out as either RHD or LHD at the bodyshell stage, and look how different they were from eachother at the firewall and bulkhead area.

The linkages for just about all other controls were different from RHD to LHD - so why not the Handbrake too? Its just too big a part of driving and enjoying the car for Nissan to have just left it - and yet they did.

The only thing that I can think of is that they must have decided ( and you can bet your life that they talked about this ) NOT to have LHD and RHD Handbrake positioning versions, and because they thought it was not going to be enough of an ergonomic issue to make it worthwhile. I find that amazing. When I drove an LHD Z car for the first time I was gobsmacked that the Handbrake was on the other side of the tunnel to my seat. At first I thought the car I was driving was some kind of mistake or hybrid, until it dawned on me that all LHD Z cars were like that. Its just a lot more inconvenient than in the RHD version. I honestly had never noticed the LHD Handbrake positioning before...........

Think of this in the context of all the other small things that they solved in engineering the car. Although not as complex as the kind of cars we see coming out of factories these days, it was still a big job to make both LHD and RHD versions. I would have thought that it would have been not that much of an extra step to have two Handbrake position versions.

I make the point again - from a purely theoretical viewpoint, one of the versions has to be less ergonomic than the other. They can't both be right.

I sounded out a few Japanese Z owners about this point after I noticed it. Every one of them told me that they thought the RHD version's Handbrake position was "correct", and that the LHD version must be difficult to use. Did Nissan think that the USA / North American market customers ( being taller on average than their Japanese / Australian / NZ / British RHD-market counterparts ) would be happy to reach over to the other side of the trans tunnel to use the Handbrake / Emergency brake?

OK - I'll get my coat..............

Alan T.