Datsun 240k Gl 1977 Needing Advice Or Feedback?

[Mr Camouflage]

Alan,

Cam covers:

quoting kyteler

I know the early L4 covers had 'DATSUN OHC' sometimes even 'DATSUN 1600 OHC' however, much like Mr. Camo, I have never seen nor heard of a L6 with 'DATSUN' lettering.

quoting you

In case you haven't noticed, a couple of other people picked you up on the 'NISSAN' cam cover issue too.

Errrr - something smells there!

Actually Kyteller and I were agreeing with Alan in that we have never seen an L6 DATSUN OHC cam cover, only L4 covers, and other engine covers. Of course that doesnt mean they dont exist. Just that not many people that post here have seen one. The valve cover fitted to the 240z that was sold in Australia had NISSAN on the cover (Maybe the Dealer you frequented replace it with the datsun cover that you list the part number for).

reference Nissan publication Part Number 99996-M8012 'How to modify your Nissan & Datsun OHC engine' exploded parts views "Drawing Courtesy Nissan" pg 89 four cylinder and p90 six cylinder. Both clearly show the lettering to be DATSUN. The same info was also published in the earlier 'How to modify DATSUN 510 610 240Z engines & chassis' pg 46

Are we to assume that Nissan released that sort of detail incorrectly? Come on!!

In a word, yes. It's a drawing. In How to rebuild you Nissan & Datsun OHC engine (nissan part number 99996-M8013) there is an illustration of an L6 valve cover with no writing on it at all. pg 53, drawing, courtesy of Nissan. Doesn't mean that Nissan made a valve cover without any lettering.

Part number 13264-E3100 is a DATSUN cam cover for an L24. Part number 13264-P0100 is a NISSAN cam cover for an L24 or L26. At least that was what they were when I had to replace a cover back in '72 after a cam gear bolt came loose (and initially got the wrong, E3100, cover).

Ok Part numbers, now we are getting somewhere.

Maybe someone could look it up on the parts cd, or microfiche or something and get us a photo of it. Maybe we should move this Valve cover discussion to L6 valve cover discussion thread.

[HS30-H]

Ok Part numbers, now we are getting somewhere.

Maybe someone could look it up on the parts cd, or microfiche or something and get us a photo of it. Maybe we should move this Valve cover discussion to L6 valve cover discussion thread.

Mr C,

The part numbers are easy to look up. I already did it when aarc240 posted the numbers. He told me to check my facts, and I did.

From the factory Parts Catalogue for the USA & Canada market:

*13264-E3100 ASSY-ROCKER COVER ( applied model L24 )

*13264-P0100 ASSY-ROCKER COVER ( applied model L24, L26 ) superseded 13264-E3100.

The illustrations on the pages ( just like the Courtesy Nissan-supplied illustrations in the books he quoted ) show the script "DATSUN 2400 OHC" - but I think this is just one of those Nissan anomalies in the parts books.

For the record, I believe:

*13264-E3100 ASSY-ROCKER COVER = "NISSAN 2400 OHC" script.

*13264-P0100 ASSY-ROCKER COVER = "NISSAN OHC" script.

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Oh, and by the way - from the 1969 Japanese market factory Parts Catalogue:

*13264-E3000 - arse'Y COVER, rocker. L20 engine. = "NISSAN 2000 OHC" script.

The parts catalogue illustration - in contrast to the Export market versions - shows exactly that.

Maybe there was some *intention* to fit a "DATSUN" scripted cam cover to the Export market cars, but they never quite got around to it?

Alan T.

[440k]

All this talk about cam covers, I had one that said Datsun 160 OHC on my 510(or 1600 HC - it was a bit difficult to distinguish). What were these from? I always figured it would be cool to have a Datsun 1600 OHC cam cover on my Datsun 1600, but used to ponder why they left one of the 0's off:ermm:

[aarc240]

just like the Courtesy Nissan-supplied illustrations in the books he quoted

Where do you get the idea that "Drawing courtesy Nissan" is the same thing as "Drawing Courtesy Nissan" ??

Referring to the illustration on page 60 of the same Nissan Part Number book, are we to assume that "Drawing courtesy O.S. Giken" is somehow supplied by a mysterious company called Courtesy O.S. Giken ?

In case your understanding of English is that flawed, the statement "Drawing courtesy Nissan" is a contraction of "This drawing is published by courtesy of Nissan".

) show the script "DATSUN 2400 OHC" - but I think this is just one of those Nissan anomalies in the parts books.

For the record, I believe:

*13264-E3100 ASSY-ROCKER COVER = "NISSAN 2400 OHC" script.

*13264-P0100 ASSY-ROCKER COVER = "NISSAN OHC" script.

I believe ?!!?

It doesn't fit with your preconceived notions so therefore you believe something else and are going to ram it down everyone else's throat!

There have been a few other examples of that sort of egotistical individual throughout history, most of whom don't bear thinking about.

[aarc240]

Actually Kyteller and I were agreeing with Alan in that we have never seen an L6 DATSUN OHC cam cover, only L4 covers, and other engine covers. Of course that doesnt mean they dont exist. Just that not many people that post here have seen one. The valve cover fitted to the 240z that was sold in Australia had NISSAN on the cover (Maybe the Dealer you frequented replace it with the datsun cover that you list the part number for).

I take it then that you were in and out of Datsun dealers in 1970?

My first Datsun was purchased new in late February 1970, first sight of the 240Z was five weeks later in the workshop being predelivered.

The first L4 'DATSUN 1600 OHC' cover I saw was on the new engine I was buying (along with a lot of other bits) to stuff into the Datsun 1200 coupe I had bought less than two months before. That was at the same time the 240Z was seen.

Even though that 1600 powered Datsun coupe was in and out of the dealer floor for display on a regular basis, the first time I saw a Nissan cover on either an L4 or an L6 was quite some time later.

[aarc240]

Oh, and by the way - from the 1969 Japanese market factory Parts Catalogue:

*13264-E3000 - arse'Y COVER, rocker. L20 engine. = "NISSAN 2000 OHC" script.

The parts catalogue illustration - in contrast to the Export market versions - shows exactly that.

Maybe there was some *intention* to fit a "DATSUN" scripted cam cover to the Export market cars, but they never quite got around to it?

Alan T.

Maybe they did fit some. That would be terribly inconvenient, wouldn't it?

[g72s20]

Hi Art,

Why the smarmy poison pen responses? You've stated a few things that raise questions. I like that. It's the ensueing discussion that generally brings in facts, other possibilities and views into play. As others have suggested these statements, of particularly great interest to most of us here, create a need for more precise information, as your info is at odds to what has been accepted so far. That in no way makes it wrong/ untrue ...whatever, but it raises the burden of proof don't you think? Now I know from personal experience that proof can be damned impossible to atain, that's life eh?..but please don't go mistaking the weight of circumstantial, anecdotal and so far substanciated evidence as an attack on your good self! If you don't have the luxury of being able (no one says you have to, I see it as a courtesy) to back up your experiences with something to corroberate it with, no worries, we're big boys here and all been there. Just agree to disagree...keep ya powder dry in the event some document comes to light that you can fire this way, but don't get bent outa shape if a bit of disappointment in being "left hanging" comes through.

It is all too easy to misconstrue the intent of a response. The "I believe" you pointed out is typical of this. I read it entirely different to you Art. "I believe":cheeky: you have some interestng facts to add to this story yet. I just hope they can come out and are not smothered by misplaced ill feeling:)

The only C10 series I could have documented as having been registered in OZ around 1972 is a private import KGC10 2000GT. Imported from or via New Guinea, this is yet to be established if indeed it ever can be now! This is the car NISSAN had "misplaced" the documents for. It has in interesting history I hope to be able to relay with a nod from the current owner.

There is another KGC10 2000GT thats been tucked away for a long time. It's story is still a mystery but I know the owner will be working on its history.

Cheers,

Jim

[sakijo]

I the picture on my NIssan Parts DVD is not clear, as it is a scan of the parts book. However, it's from the 72 and 73 S30, HS30, and PS30 parts book.

13264-E3000, Cover Assy, Rocker . . . . . . L20AT, L24T

13264-P0100, Cover Assy, Rocker (from E/# L20AT 179168) . . . L20AT, L24T

At least here in the Japanese market, the part numbers match what Alan says, and apparently, from L20A serial number 179168, they switched the covers (probably that's when the 2000/2400 disappeared).

[aarc240]

your info is at odds to what has been accepted so far. That in no way makes it wrong/ untrue ...whatever, but it raises the burden of proof don't you think?

No, it is anecdotal evidence. If it provides a clue for anyone well and good.

Now I know from personal experience that proof can be damned impossible to attain, that's life eh?

Yes, and proof usually can best be obtained by constructive cooperation.

It is all too easy to misconstrue the intent of a response. The "I believe" you pointed out is typical of this. I read it entirely different to you Art. "I believe":cheeky:

That is something I see very differently.

Trained originally as a tradesman (Toolmaker) I know very well how and why engineering drawings are done. I also know they are costly to produce, particularly back at a time when each drawing had to be produced individually and by hand.

Somehow we see here a company that will waste money on irrelevant drawings yet would be so unlikely to lay out a small sum to localise a product as with a speedometer.

Yair, right!

Never mind, there's one in every bunch.

Art

[aarc240]

Where is the car? I would think that something like that would still be in the country. If it is, someone knows about it. Skyline men of OZ, find this car and help us put an end to this controversy.

"There was at least 1 KPGC10 sold to an RAF pilot then stationed over here and was frequently seen in Woomera SA.

afaik, he shipped that car to Germany when he was posted there."

[HS30-H]

Never mind, there's one in every bunch.

I'm sorry that you find it troublesome and annoying, but I am interested in the truth. If your evidence is only anecdotal, then it might be best to make that clear from the outset. Opinions too are probably best clearly stated as merely opinions, rather than facts.

Trained originally as a tradesman (Toolmaker) I know very well how and why engineering drawings are done. I also know they are costly to produce, particularly back at a time when each drawing had to be produced individually and by hand.

You are referring to the cam cover drawings now, yes? Once again, I'm sorry to disagree with you - but I don't think we should classify the drawings from the factory parts lists as true "engineering" drawings. For one thing, they haven't got very much of the data that an engineer would need on them. Essentially they are guides to help identify individual components, and serve as illustrations to accompany part numbers and their descriptions.

Somehow we see here a company that will waste money on irrelevant drawings yet would be so unlikely to lay out a small sum to localise a product as with a speedometer.

Yair, right!

They are not "irrelevant" drawings - they just have some slight inaccuracies - and plain mistakes - in them. I have some Japanese-market parts lists and workshop manuals that were hand-notated by the dealers and mechanics to correct inaccuracies. It is clear that mistakes were made, and some inaccuracies were allowed through the net because - presumably - they would result in little adverse consequence ( I'm thinking of the "DATSUN" scripted L6 cam cover illustrations here ). If you spend time looking at the original publications you can spot quite a few incidences like this. Do you have any factory parts lists? I could give you some examples of mistakes if you don't.

And with regard to the KPH to MPH speedo conversion on that single KPGC10 - you suggested that 'Jeco' could have performed the conversion ( even though I believe - there's that word again - the KPGC10 speedo and tacho were made by Kanto Seiki ) - which would point to the car being an *official* Factory-sanctioned export. To me, this confuses the situation: You are offering up 'evidence' that is clearly questionable ( Jeco ) - and which can mislead.

I went back through this thread and re-read it several times. I picked out the post which caused me some surprise and aroused my interest. Here is what you wrote:

Nissan PGC10's and later KPGC10's were sold in Australia (or at least in South Australia) in limited numbers, suffering from competing with both the 510 and the 240Z. From memory the KPGC10 was several hundred dollars more than a 240Z and didn't perform as well!

So far you have backed this up with anecdotal evidence of one car ( you say it was a KPGC10 ) of which you say no pictures, written reports or other sightings seem to exist. So what about the PGC10s you mentioned? Did they come and go without ever being noted? I would find that hard to believe.

This is not a witch hunt - and I'm sorry if it feels that way to you - but you should expect to be asked for a little more evidence after making such a definitive statement.

Alan T.