Replacing S30 Rear Wheel Bearings

[Captain Obvious]

I'm no bearing expert, but I don't believe you should have to beat on anything to get this stuff to fit together correctly.

@Jason240z, are you positive sure you weren't rubbing against the inboard grease seal? You could try putting everything together and leave that grease seal out completely to see what happens. It's easy to take that nut back off and install the seal later after you have confirmed that everything else fits correctly.

Also, you said you measured the distance piece and found the marking "B" stamp on the hubs. But did you actually measure the hubs to double check the dimensions?

[Jason240z]

Hi

 

yes tried without the seal.... checked the hubs too,  measured bearings against the lip they sit on, then the height of the hub.  Fully home...

[Captain Obvious]

Without having the parts here to inspect, I'm kinda at a loss to come up with ideas. If everything measures properly and everything is seated properly, then it should work, right?

I modified a pair of calipers so I could make a direct measurement on the distance between the two bearing seating surfaces. Here's a pic showing that direct measurement:

And here's a pic of some distortion that can cause problems. This is what happens when you try to press a bearing in at an angle. You can see the semi-circular mark  on the far side where they gouged the cylinder wall that is supposed to locate the bearing. That raised bump was pushing the bearing to one side and not letting it seat square:

[LeonV]

Is your companion flange bent or have some sort of damage that causes physical rubbing on the housing? I had a similar issue but with the stub axle itself. 

[the_unknown]

Sorry for bumping an old thread but this is the most relevant one I could find.

 

I am having the same issues as the OP. I have tried everything I can think of but anytime I begin to torque down the companion flange, the axle binds and locks up. I'm using all new TIMKEN bearings and they are hydraulically pressed in. I upgraded to t3 coilovers, and after a few back and forth e-mails, they are using the "B" series housing as a baseline.

 

The B series distance piece was measuring a hair out of spec by about 0.002" and so we turned a couple of spacers to try and pick up the slack. No luck there as were still binding. It can't be the dust seal as I removed that early in the process to eliminate it from the equation and it would still binds without it. I'm down to my last bit of stock to make a spacer and I am running out of ideas. The only options I can think of are

 

1) I'm inaccurately measuring everything and the spacers I have previously made are too small.

2) The Stub axle is bent.

 

I'm not sure the stub axle is bent as when it is initially pressed in via the hydraulic press, it can spin freely.

Any ideas?

[Captain Obvious]

Have you got some pics of what you're working with?

And I'm not sure what you mean when you say "they are using the "B" series housing as a baseline." Are you doing the work yourself, or is someone doing it for you?

[the_unknown]

35 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Have you got some pics of what you're working with?

And I'm not sure what you mean when you say "they are using the "B" series housing as a baseline." Are you doing the work yourself, or is someone doing it for you?

I don't have pics of the parts yet just the machining process but I can at some point this weekend. I am doing the work at a buddy's shop. He has a Lathe and magnetic grinder which can make cuts by the 0.0001 range. I did make sure to put the outer bearing with the seal and collar face down (towards the flat part of the flange similar to pics in this thread)

 

"They" is techno toy tuning. I bought their evolved coilover setup which, according to their e-mail, is based on the B series housing measurements. (It's supposed to be 2.068" to 2.072") I haven't figured out a way to accurately measure their inner housing distance with the precision neccesary yet. I'm in the tens of thousandths range with my measurements and not single digits like it should be.

 

We were thinking that the distance piece was too short and the bearings were being clamped against the races when torqued.

[the_unknown]

When torque is applied and the it just starts to bind, it will spin smoothly, then catch at a certain point in its rotation, then spin freely once past the catch at the same point.

After ~50 ft/lbs it locks completely up.

 

I pulled the other side off that spins ok and am going to try that stub axle in the problematic housing. That should tell me if the stub is bent or not.

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by the_unknown

[Zed Head]

3 hours ago, the_unknown said:

When torque is applied and the it just starts to bind, it will spin smoothly, then catch at a certain point in its rotation, then spin freely once past the catch at the same point.

After ~50 ft/lbs it locks completely up.

I pulled the other side off that spins ok and am going to try that stub axle in the problematic housing. That should tell me if the stub is bent or not.

There are a couple of threads on the site about this exact problem.  CO spent a lot of effort in them.  Even made a measuring tool, I believe.  Search around.

Kind of sounds like the inner race and the outer race are not parallel, both cocked a little bit.  When the two edges that are cocked towards each other meet you get a bind.  Just a guess.

[Zed Head]

Here's a few.

 

 

 

[Captain Obvious]

 

10 hours ago, the_unknown said:

"They" is techno toy tuning. I bought their evolved coilover setup which, according to their e-mail, is based on the B series housing measurements. (It's supposed to be 2.068" to 2.072") I haven't figured out a way to accurately measure their inner housing distance with the precision necessary

We were thinking that the distance piece was too short and the bearings were being clamped against the races when torqued.

Couple of thoughts. First off, yes... if the distance piece is too short, it will completely bind the bearings when tightened. So getting accurate measurements of all the parts in question would be the best thing to do. As Zed Head mentioned, I modified a pair of (accurate, but) disposable calipers to fit down into the bearing recess and measure the distances between the bearing seating surfaces to make sure everything was within spec. And on one of the cars I did, I found that one of the housings was narrower than the other and one of the distance pieces was slightly shorter than the other. So even though all of the parts were "within spec", I mixed and matched parts and used the shorter distance piece in the narrower hub just because I knew.

Pics of the modified calipers are in one of those other threads.

Next thought is that one thing I have seen cause problems are raised burrs on the hub machined surfaces caused by pressing a bearing in while not completely square and raising a bump. After that happened, the bump caused some misalignment in the bearings and resulted in rotational binding like you described. So, question would be... Did you have any troubles pressing the bearings in or did they go in smooth, even, and easy from the start? Or did they go in cocked to one side and eventually snap into alignment.

Lastly, while a surface grinder *CAN* be a very accurate device for removing material, if someone had messed with the distance piece in the past and screwed up the squareness of the end cuts, slapping it down onto the mag chuck of the grinder and removing a little material won't fix the problem. It will just propagate the error to the new length.

[the_unknown]

Zed Head, thanks for posting those threads. I had read some of them but not all yet.

 

CO, Everything pressed in smoothly on both sides. We even mic'ed the distances from the housing to the bearing and were within 1-2 thousandths of each measurement for both sides. I think the plan of attack for the next go is to modify my calipers to measure everything, rip it all apart, clean everything, inspect it, and measure. Then, if neccesary, machine a spacer to the proper spec if none of the ones I have now will fit.

The surface grinder was used on the ones that we turned on the lathe. We had fairly square pieces and did both sides to ensure a parallel cut. Mic'ing the surface at multiple spots showed that they were parallel.

 

Thanks for the help ?