26th-Z

And painted black with a brush, I might ad. Of course, I'm exposed to seriously early cars which from all looks of it were fairly hand built. By the time we get around to looking at 260s and 280s, I get a little lost from lack of exposure.

Paint over cadmium plating. You can use the F word when you are really talking about the factory, Juan-Pablo. :-)

The hood latch hardware is plated and finished as such. Hood hinges are plated and painted to match the car color.

Carl, Guidelines are not benchmarks. They are guidelines. We can certainly use the guides to keep us in the same conversation, but they are not standards, levels, criterion, points of reference or any thing other than vaguely defined subjective categories which may or may not apply to the value of the day. Lets not confuse the issue, please. Chris

I don't know, Arne. They are stock for my cars and I snatched a pair as spare parts, at least, for you should see the Hitachis on 27th! My plan has always been to send the Hitachis out to Ztherapy and I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they needed parts. If I end up with three sets of carbs, I'll probably make a performance set.

Hey Carl! Is your numbering system a recognized published value system that you can point to as reference, or is that the "Carl Beck" numbering system? I am not intending to sound rash or arguementative by any means, but I don't necessarilly agree with the detail of your descriptions. I don't think number one cars are all that rare. I think plenty of them are driven and I would say a 90 point car would qualify. Also, a 90 point car does NOT necessarily mean bone stock and in that respect, the point / value system currently in practice by the ZCCA is far more restrictive in the stock classes than any other. Good case in point: Charlie Osborne drove his stock entry to Syracuse last year, washed it, won a Gold Medallion, and drove it home. No question in my mind, it is / was a number 1 car. One of our active ClassicZ club members showed up in Syracuse with his wonderfully restored Z, took top honors in his modified class, qualified for the Gold round of judging, and then drove his car at Watkins Glen the next day. The Gold Cup modified 240Z from last year was driven. Another interesting thing that happend last year was that the cars scored higher indoors under artificial light than they did outdoors in bright sunlight. You have offered a valuable benchmark for everyone's reference, but I would like to respectfully dilute the description, just a bit. Real-world judging, either ZCCA or AACA, is not that definative and highly subjective. It is also a "snapshot" in time and place. Finally, with all due respect, you forgot to mention the #10 category. This is highly subjective, but a 10 car is one that just leaves the viewer awe struck from 6 meters. My proud example of a 10 car is the honorable Princess 27th! Chris

Arne, 10/70 seems to be the swing month for valve covers. They seem to be highy sought in Japan these days. I would be interested in the valve cover to fill requests I have. So don't sweat the unorignal thang. Her Majesty recognises you as a mature and responsible fellow Z gentleman and waves unstockified blessing upon your ride.

Arne, There was a time, a year or two ago, that you would have thought these parts were made of platinum with diamond studs. I saw prices on eBay that astounded me - what the $300 radiator hose and such. I remember how pissed I was at getting outbid at $65 for a metal fan blade in those days. There were a number of people out there, with early cars, buying up parts at premium dollars and it was discouraging. Now, it seems most of those people, including myself, have all those parts and the market for some of the early stuff has dropped. I have had the honorable experience of paying way too much as well as paying darned near nothing. One day, I was searching the classifieds on Zcar.com (remember when they were long listings?) and an add popped up for an early ash tray while I was surfing. The guy wanted $25 for it. I phoned the guy right away and wired (remember wiring money?) cash to him that night. He was somewhat astounded, but early ash trays were going for $50 - $75 on eBay at the time. I have a similar story for Nissan 2400 OHC valve covers. Now...I see prices flattening off. But this is just what I think - so take it for what it's worth. I'm not going to stand and argue about how accurate I am. There are several types of early air cleaners and your's is probably the later style, but no matter, they are worth anywhere from $25 - $60 in used restorable condition. 4 screw Hitachis come without float bowl drain plugs (early) and with drain plugs. I just stole an early set on eBay for $125, but the most common are the drain plug style and they go as high as $200 for clean looking examples. Clean E31 heads are around $300 complete with all the valve train. I don't know about E88 heads. Heads that have been machined are normally much less. I have never dealt in engine blocks, but most guys are paying around $100 for a used block in original spec that may or may not clean up. I just paid $45 for an early example transmission, $25 for a differential, so on. Hope this helps. I'm interested in the air cleaner. Chris

No, Ben. The car is in Japan. A couple of guys you know went to Japan last fall, attended some car shows, talked to some Japanese Z people we know of and relayed the situation to me as though I was going to buy it! Chris

Jerry, Milwaukee guy, eh? I grew up in Mequon. Are you on the West coast? Come join our Florida clubs. Chris

Yahoooo! Kudos to you for rescuing the babe. Welcome to the low VIN club and hope to see you at the Mitty.

I don't really know what is going to be "spare" until I finish the cars, Will !?!!! In the late summer of 2003, I rented a 16'x25' "U-Store-it" bay right around the corner from my body shop and moved in. I built storage shelving from some scrap shelving racks I salvaged from a demolished industrial building and new plywood from Homo Depot. (They even had the correct orange spray paint for touch-up) I built the work bench from 2x4s and Corian I salvaged from a remodeled kitchen project and I used some of the cabinets as well. Lighting came out of a dumpster in Naples. (My father is a dumpster diver - oh the shame of it). This became the new home of TRICKY garage - world renown home of famous racing hardware and service for celebrity automobiles. TRICKY also hosts a famous art collection of rare Datsun memorabilia and broken racing parts. As a matter of pride, all parts are carefully labeled and hermetically encapsulted in the shipping containers one often collects from frequent eBay deals. With the aquisition of her graciousness The Princess 27th in the summer we Floridians call Charlie, new space was required. Fortunately, a Samsclubian monarch presented a gift of a hurricane proof tent captured in the northern provinces of China which was promptly erected on a foundation bed of crushed shell in a secret location so as to thwart grave robbing vandals. The Princess arrived with the remains of various body shells on the royal sled of Manny's and was rolled into place by the enthusiastic crowd gathered to see the delivery. (After a long explanantion, the homeowners association letter was retracted) Currently, Her Majesty's engine sits on display at Carboy Randy's shop, the body shell is taking spa at Beautiful Bodies, and the rest of her is at TRICKY. A collection of rare cardboard glove boxes, glass, and butterscotch colored nauga hides occupies an obscure chamber of the original archives, however most of Her Majesty's collection of historical photographs, books and documentation has moved to higher ground and now shares space with the home offices of The Florida Z Association. The aquisition of the remains of 403rd has caused some concern for additional space and a rearrangement plan is underway. Frankly, with all the time, money and energy spent on storing parts, it's a wonder any restoration work gets done!

Thanks for all the pictures! This thread has been quite informative for me. Who would-a thunk? Valve cover art has been popular throughout the development of the internal combustion engine. It is the best way to advertise and present one's name and business image. They are not all that difficult to make. The cost is in the pattern and for that reason, I would guess the Kameari type cover is squared. However, if you think about it, the placement of the oil spout does not have to be located at the front and the graphics could be anything. But now that we are talking about it, I know people who are looking for Nissan 2000 OHC, Bob Sharp Racing, and I'll have to ask Her Majesty if she would like to sport a Kameari cover. She might like that. If anyone wants to part with a 2000 OHC or BSR cover, PM me.

I'll never forget many years ago when I bought 26th...My Porsche friends laughed when I said that some day 26th would be worth $16,000 to $20,000 - four to five times what I paid for Her Majesty. But then, look at what 1970 911s are going for these days. Value in the market is going to go up and down. Right now, Z cars are increasing in value by well documented observation. They are coming into their own and I think we will see this continue for some years while the guys (like me) buy and own cars they cherished during their early adulthood. I was talking to a fellow Z collector about a $60,000 pristine Fairlady 432 and we both agreed that the price was not all that bad. In context, the value of the collectable Z car is still relatively economical. But it all comes down to what many people agree on, and that is; a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay at any given time. I don't know if that guy we know, Carl, is an anomaly or not. Half the fun is sitting back and watching the show.

Couple of theings: Chris, that was an expression of endearment. No harm intended. I agree with Carl. The car isn't really a Vintage Z. I would call it a "Vintage Z Foornote". But in terms of value, it's like any of the cars we see trading; it is worth what someone is willing to pay at any given time. I'm glad to see it sell so well.

That car doesn't look anywhere near as bad as 27, but it's bad. The economics of a project like this would be easily $40,000 over the next four years to have a $40,000 when you are finished. Pristine restored Zs and / or pristine originals go for as high as $30,000 now. They will be $40,000 in four years. The BIN is half what I paid for 27 - it's a good deal for those so inclined. Good luck if you buy it. Keep the faith. Write me about the parts you are going to need. Chris

5 or 6? More like one or two. Definitely one. Les? Are you reading this? You were going to get back to me with those VINs and pictures? Les? Yes, both of my babes are green!

That's why I'm so interested in this car, Ron. I suspect it is an example of exactly what you mention. To each his own, though. I would prefer another version also. Besides, that dark green color has GOT to go! !

Ok, knuckleheads. Go back a few posts and read. The car sits up so high because it has new shocks and springs and it has never been driven. The suspension has never had the chance to set under load. CheeeZ! Don't you guys jack your cars up in the air every now and then? The Vintage Z program associates the word restoration as liberally as the factory word is used. One must understand the circumstances surrounding the issue to fully appreciate the value in reassembling cars in what may be considered a hodge-podge. In this particular case, a series one steering wheel or radio in a '72 model year car is completely appropriate. However, because this car is not complete, I would gladly trade a choice '72 radio, face plate and antenna switch for that series one face plate. Otherwise, it would be totally inappropriate to "correct" a Vintage Z in my opinion. I don't think the paint color is correct for the model year either, but because it is associated with the Vintage Z program, the color is completely appropriate. Ron's "beware" message is appropriate for purchasing any used car, especially one that is not complete and running. I think that is just common sense. One must stay completely away from the concepts of authentic, correct, restoration practices when discussing Vintage Zs. For various acceptable reasons, Vintage Zs are not "new originals". They might be best considered "over restorations". Without question, they are in a class of their own - most appropriately discussed in that manner. Some are darned good authentics. Some are not. Vicky, it is my pleasure to include your car on the cover of my research project. Some one of these days, I'll stop working on it and declare it finished enough to publish! Your car is one of the finest Vintage Z examples I have seen. Chris

Yea, I'm still working on that book, Will! This happened to be a great find as it exemplifies what happened at the end of the program. The seller is motivated by a new baby and job relocation. We had a nice conversation on the phone the other night. BTW, it sits way high because it has new shocks and springs and it has never been driven. For further reading on the Vintage Z restoration program, the Z-Store and our flame wars over the insinuation that a "factory" had anything to do with this subject - http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15911&highlight=Factory+restoration and http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14243&highlight=Factory+restoration

Revise my post #18 Nissan won the IMSA GTP championship in '89, '90, and '91. I was rummaging around and found the 1988 pin. Sorry for the lousy scan, but I don't want to take the pin out of the original bag - complete with the 100% rust-free staple.

The hardware is either new or re-plated. It is not a paint finish. For the restoration of my cars, all the hardware was cleaned, inspected, and sent out to be re-plated.

Oh wonderful! I see this morning that his bid price is getting up there. Yesterday, it was half that. This is HLS30-63767 prepared by Datsun Alley for the Vintage Z restoration program. It was not completed and never delivered to a Z-Store for sale. It comes with a letter signed by Pete Evanow, Nissan USA manager of the Z-Store program, to the Department of Motor Vehicles requesting transfer of title from Nissan USA as a non-running vehicle. The letter states that the car was intended for the Vintage Z program. The car has no Z-Store decals or console plaque. My understanding is that the car was sold by Datsun Alley in 2001 and later sold to the current seller. The seller tells me that little if any work has been done to the car since the original sale. One of the peculiar things you may notice about the car is the yellow piping in the seat upholstery. Although I am not able to identify the car by serial number, the seats match those prepared for this Vintage Z photographed at Datsun Alley in 1997. There seems to be a lot of confusion about preparation spec for the Vintage Z program and this car provides an excellent example to further those conversations. As you may know, most of the Vintage Zs were prepared by Pierre-Z in Hawthorn, California under the direction of Nissan USA - Bob Thomas, president and Pete Evanow, managing director. The original goal of 200 cars was never met; 38 cars are documented complete and sold through the Z-Stores of ten dealers throughout the U.S. This particular car represents the confusion of how many cars were restored. I have seen figures as high as 42 cars, however the most accurate current VIN record denotes 38. Three other restoration facilities were used including Datsun Alley. At the conclusion of the program in October 1998, many of the left-over parts and body shells were sold privately; the most visble being Datsun Alley. It is quite common to find remnants of the program. There is evidence that some Vintage Zs were prepared "customized" to a specific owner's request. The most notable was the car sold to the editor of Autoweek magazine. The presence of the seats with yellow piping indicate such procedure. Obviously, these seats do not match the current car and were probably sold as either a spare set or they may be the seats orignally installed in the car below. There has been quite a chatter on the e-mail about this car. I have talked with a couple of people who have seen the car. Opinions vary about why it was never completed and sold, but regardless, it IS what the seller claims it to be. Considering that the Vintage Zs are in a collectable class of their own, this car is a peculiarity of the group and in my opinion, properly completed or purposely left incomplete, worthy of inclusion. Chris

My apologies, Alan. After I wrote the first bit, I went back to look at some of the great pictures you and Eric have posted and realized that nothing would have precluded an entry in the Group C class for a car of that design during those racing years. Those were the transition years and it does get confusing when you consider the introduction of Group C rules. IMSA introduced the GTP rules about the same time. I know how confusing it is between Porsche 956s and 962s. Here is a photo of the 1992 Daytona 24 winner. R91CP (Lola) V8 turbo - entered by Nissan Motorsports International I wish I knew the chassis number.