Captain Obvious

Me? It means you've got what looks like a great start for project. It means we've all been there. Stuff will be out of place. Stuff will be missing. Stuff will be wired wrong. Stuff will be put on backwards. Stuff will be leaking because it's too loose or too tight or because it's standard thread when it should have been metric. It's standard operating procedure.

Yeah, that car has been messed with in too many ways to count. Nothing insurmountable and certainly not unusual. Most used Z's are like that. Just always makes me wonder what kind of problem the previous owner we chasing.

Haha! And if you're going to paint a gas tank, I would try to find a paint that is fuel proof.... Signed, Captain Obvious. PS - Maybe some of Eastwoods "catalyzed in a can" spray paint? I haven't tried it, but I suspect it's fuel proof or at least fuel resistant. Wear a good respirator... http://www.eastwood.com/paints/2k-aero-spray-paints.html

Oh. In that case... Nevermind. Hoping you DO find something. Other typical area of concern is the boot after the AFM. If that one leaks, you'll run lean. Often cracks down in the valleys of the corrugations.

I'll add an independent plug for Wayne's wiring diagram. It's better than sliced bread. If you have a 77 and don't yet have a copy of this thing, you are doing yourself a huge disservice. It's too late now (since it's been out there in the public domain for so long), but this diagram is so good, that you should have to pay for it. So glad we don't have to, but we all should have.

Haha!! No, don't cut back. I think you're doing great!! Keep up the good work, both of you. It'll be nice to have options for potential replacements.

Well unless I'm misinterpreting your spray test results above, it sounds like you've found at least one vacuum leak so far. Good. Remember that, in general, vacuum leaks have more impact when at idle then when at full throttle. And running lean has more impact when the engine is cold than when it's hot. Hopefully your start stumble issue turns out to be a couple vacuum leaks. Don't forget to check the PCV tube under the intake manifold. It's a typical leak location and since it's underneath and not as easy to see, it can be missed.

Yes, that seemingly unnecessary short intermediate piece of wire is a fusible link. If it's like mine... Take a close look at it, you'll see that it is actually just one wire. I think the other "wire like thing" that runs between the two connectors is a piece of solid plastic cord to act as a strain relief to reduce mechanical damage to the link itself. Another important place to clean up is the four fusible links in front of the battery on the passenger fender well. One of them is related to the EFI system as well and if it's intermittent, it could cause your symptoms. Here's a basic Classic Z Car repair axiom... You get a spare moment, clean some connectors. Even if something is functioning correctly (today), you have time on your hands? Clean some connectors.

Haha! Perfect. I'll give you a call then!

I'll call you. What time do you get home from work?

Good. One less thing to worry about. If I were you, I would just leave it disconnected for now. If it still started the exact same way with it disconnected, it's not like it's doing anything good for you anyway. Think about the vacuum leaks... Maybe you split a brittle boot or hose while you were doing all the other work to the car. For all you know, when you were in there wrestling your old stuck distributor cap off, you pushed the wrong way on one of your AFM boots and open up a crevice. You have a vacuum gauge? And as another shotgun... All of this started after you did a bunch of ignition work, right? I know it's a long shot, but did you keep the old ignition parts? If all else fails, you could toss the old stuff back on just to see what happens.

I'd be interested in hearing if those sockets work as well. I was messing around with mine the other day because they're corroded and had gone intermittent. I cleaned them up enough to work, but I'm not sure how long they're going to last. Would be nice to have new sockets back there. I guess my other option would be to pull them out and send them out for plating, but it would be much cheaper to replace with something like what you pictured.

Yeah, in theory it should be too warm for the CSV, but you're right, it certainly seems like it wants more fuel.

I'm one of the people who has disabled their cold start system. I removed the connectors to both my CSV and my thermotime switch a couple years ago and don't really miss it. In the cooler months, I do notice a slightly longer crank time the first crank of the day, but it's not like yours. And in the warmer months, I don't notice any change at all which makes sense based on the temp at which the thermotime is supposed to open. At your current ambient temps, your thermotime should be open 24-7 as well. I mean, I completely understand why rcb280z is suggesting the cold start system stuff... It sure looks and sounds like it wants more fuel. But if it's 85 ambient, you shouldn't be expecting the CSV to actuate anyway. My engine doesn't need any additional fuel at 85 ambient and it doesn't take me 2-3 tries to get mine to start. You've got something else going on... Have you checked for vacuum leaks? Search here at the site for "yogurt cup". Have you put a vacuum gauge on it when it's running? Here's some common areas of concern: Hole in your rubber PCV tube? Leaking intake manifold?Poor seal around your dip stick or oil fill cap? Cracks in your AFM boots?Malfunctioning CARB can valve?

Haha! And I just saw Zed Head's guru list. I'm no guru, but I'm honored to be even mentioned in the same sentence with such good company! Not sure I can handle the pressure.....

Not unexpected. Makes me think that the 6-7 volts you measured the other day was a function of the update rate of your digital voltmeter. Some voltmeters have an update rate of one second or more and that makes quick measurements like this impossible. If you got 10-11 volts (while cranking) delivered at the starter end of the big cables, then I think you're cables and battery are fine.

Belay that order... There is no link between the water temp sensor and the cold start valve. If you unplug the water temp sensor it will run pig rich. You might get it to fire off faster because the ECU will stuff in a whole lot more fuel due to the cold temperature it perceives, but that huge amount of extra fuel will drown the engine after it starts. Problem is your car intermittently stumbles on the start. If you pull the water temp sensor, it is going to run like crap, but you won't know exactly why it's running like crap. You won't know if it's only because the water temp sensor is disconnected or if it's the combination of the temp sensor being disconnected in addition to what has been causing your start stumble from before. About the only thing you could do WRT to the temp sensor is for you to pull the temp sensor connector and have someone else (preferably in pajamas) crank the engine. Then the instant it fires off, put the temp sensor back in place while being careful that you don't get your hand into the fan. Then if it starts great with the temp sensor disconnected, was it because the temp sensor was off, or was it simply one of those times when your car started just fine? How many days is your helper willing to run that test?

Jacob, Do you know a lot about cars? If not, you will. How's the underside look? That's the part that I worry about the most. I can fix just about anything else...

Thanks guys for the info and pics. I gotta see a pic of this fuse puller thing you guys are talking about. Makes me wonder now if I have a spot for that too. Siteunseen, nice card!

And reading back a little, I'm guessing the reason we're talking about battery cables at all is this: I'm not sure what you meant by "terminals". Are you measuring where the two large battery cables connect to the starter (One on the starter solenoid and one on the mounting bolt that holds the starter to the engine)? Or are you measuring on the two threaded posts sticking out of the starter solenoid?

Listening to the speed at which the starter cranks the motor over doesn't lead me to believe there's a problem with the battery cables or the starter. It sounds like a healthy typical speed spin. The battery and cables "sound" fine to me. (If I can legally do that...)

I'm sure I saw some pic of spare fuses in those holders somewhere, but I've looked twice now and I just can't find it. Driving me nuts...

Your Z has a place for a fuse puller as well as spare fuses? You got a pic?

I know I've seen pictures or sketches of those spare fuse locations in the past, but I went through all the FSM's and Owner's Manuals I have and I couldn't find them (it?). Do you think you've ever seen mention of those spare locations in any of the documentation? Do they talk about them or show a pic of them in use in your 71 Owner's Manual? I had wanted to post a snippet from the documentation as well when I started this thread, but I just can't find the reference I (think I) had seen before.

Don't know if this is old hat or not, but I was doing some poking around with my fuse block and discovered that there are holes at the bottom designed to hold spare fuses. Might be different for other years, but mine is a 77. If you look along the bottom edge of the fuse block, there is a row of holes for the spares. Here's a pic showing a couple spares already in the holes and I'm inserting another into a still empty location: