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New Oil Pump Installed, now hearing noise from engine?


Ownallday

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I just installed a new Kameari High Performance Oil Pump to my 280z. I have an L28 with triple weber carbs. I installed it because I had no oil pressure at idle. I also threw in Rotella T6 5w-40 oil into the car as a ton of people recommended to use Rotella to me. Before I would use penzoil 10w-30 but the car would burn about a qt every 2k miles or so. Needless to say after doing this, the car idles amazing now and is insanely smooth now through the rpm range. Before my car drove like the webers needed a tune. It feels like my car might've just gained some power. Before the new oil pump my car would idle around 800 rpm, but after installing the oil pump the car now idles at 1200 (can't adjust weber idle screws to lower it too as its already the lowest it can go). Also I noticed some kind of sound coming from the engine that I can only hear above 3k rpm and only when I accelerate. I don't hear the sound when coasting. The sound kinda sounds like maybe a tapping noise or maybe a rotating noise, its hard to explain. Any ideas?

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4 minutes ago, Yarb said:

Looks like you put two separate variables in the loop at one time. Backtrack, check your work and check every thing you touched. Have you checked the timing?

I only touched the oil pump and did an oil change lol. I was going to check timing tomorrow as I didn't have time today, i figured I might've somehow advanced the timing when I installed the oil pump and possibly I might be hearing ping? I run 91 octane in the car already.

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29 minutes ago, Yarb said:

Looks like you put two separate variables in the loop at one time. Backtrack, check your work and check every thing you touched. Have you checked the timing?

I just went to go adjust timing by ear and there wasn't a difference to my ears no matter how much I would retard or advance. the sound im hearing from the engine sounds like fast crickets, that's the best way I can explain the sound. I can also confirm the car feels a lot faster than before.

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You might just be hearing the contacting of the new pump parts.  To get higher pressure they might have changed the shape of the pumping components and also used a higher pressure relief valve.

But, there should be no effect on performance.

I'm not sure that MSA really proofread what they wrote.  How does a pump maintain "static" pressure?  Anyway, they imply that the pump pushes high volume at low PRM.  That would require a redesign of the "gerotor".

https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/17-8032

"Kameari High Performance Oil Pump is the best pump available. It is designed to maintain a static pressure of 6kg/cm2 (85.3 PSI), "

 

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5 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

You might just be hearing the contacting of the new pump parts.  To get higher pressure they might have changed the shape of the pumping components and also used a higher pressure relief valve.

But, there should be no effect on performance.

I'm not sure that MSA really proofread what they wrote.  How does a pump maintain "static" pressure?  Anyway, they imply that the pump pushes high volume at low PRM.  That would require a redesign of the "gerotor".

https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/17-8032

"Kameari High Performance Oil Pump is the best pump available. It is designed to maintain a static pressure of 6kg/cm2 (85.3 PSI), "

 

Is that normal? To my ears an oil pump should not make noise like that at all even if it's a performance pump, it's really loud, can hear it even over my loud exhaust from inside the cabin. I forgot to mention I added something called "Engine Restore" which is suppose to help increase compression so maybe that's stuff worked and the use of thicker oil helped too lol. Or maybe my car is happier that its finally getting oil pressure?

 

Is it possible for me to set off timing installing a new oil pump? I didn't mess with the dizzy, I just took off the oil pump and spindle that came out and installed the new one best I could with the spindle.

 

Not sure what that meant either, I was just told to get this one or a turbo oil pump to fix my low oil pressure issue which so far its done that perfectly.

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why not set the motor to TDC and verify the distributor shaft position? 
 

I don’t see how the idle would change after a oil pump change….

 

have you taken the valve cover off? Just to take a peep at the valve train?

Edited by heyitsrama
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5 hours ago, heyitsrama said:

why not set the motor to TDC and verify the distributor shaft position? 
 

I don’t see how the idle would change after a oil pump change….

 

have you taken the valve cover off? Just to take a peep at the valve train?

I was trying to avoid doing this because I don't see how replacing an oil pump can cause timing to go off. I haven't taken that off yet. My car ran really rich before replacing the oil pump so later today I'll check my spark plugs and see if they indicate if I'm running lean now or still running rich. I was gonna readjust valves next week but doubt that's the issue. If anything I'll probably throw car into tdc on Tuesday when I have time and check everything

5 hours ago, jonbill said:

the spindle that came out with the oil pump sets the timing on the distributor. I expect your ignition timing is advanced. there are many threads on here about timing the oil pump and distributor spindle. 

Yeah I know, but the only way timing would be set off is if I somehow moved the spindle and caused the distributor to turn too with it, but to my knowledge, isn't it really hard to rotate the spindle from the bottom to cause the distributor to rotate too? I've timed both before when I rebuilt my motor

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35 minutes ago, Yarb said:

I’d probably go reverse order on your pump install and see what you have. Those crickets are coming from somewhere. Could it be possible the plastic gear not meshing properly creating the noise?

Okay, I am going to call MSA before I do anything and ask them if that sound is normal and will check my spark plugs to see if I can see signs of possible ping. If the sound isn't normal and I see no signs of lean condition then I will reinstall my old one and see what changes

18 minutes ago, AZDatsun said:

Do you still have your old pump? Put it back and start it and listen did it change anything then you have eliminated the pump as the issue

Yes, I will do the above first and go from there. Tuesday would be the day I can throw the old one back on so I will update then

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I tip on oil pump, don't remove the spindle, just remove the dizzy so you can grab the top of the spindle with something (dont go beast mode on this, you dont want to damage just keep in from dropping).  then unbolt and remove the pump. install by looking rotating the pump drive so it can line up with the spindle that is still in the engine. 

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Does it sound like the noise in this video?  That's a shaft rubbing on a dry bushing/bearing surface.   Not good.  You might also check your belts and other bearings.  I think the AC belt idler pulley bearing often makes this sound too.

About 2:50.

 

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3 hours ago, Dave WM said:

I tip on oil pump, don't remove the spindle, just remove the dizzy so you can grab the top of the spindle with something (dont go beast mode on this, you dont want to damage just keep in from dropping).  then unbolt and remove the pump. install by looking rotating the pump drive so it can line up with the spindle that is still in the engine. 

Okay I'll will tackle this on Tuesday if the problem isn't solved by then. Before prior I didn't hold the spindle from the top. One thing I should mention is I actually forgot to grease or lube the spindle and gear but not sure if that is necessary, I didn't do it when I rebuilt the engine.

11 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

Does it sound like the noise in this video?  That's a shaft rubbing on a dry bushing/bearing surface.   Not good.  You might also check your belts and other bearings.  I think the AC belt idler pulley bearing often makes this sound too.

About 2:50.

 

It doesn't sound like that. I can only hear it in the cabin while driving the car. To me it sounds more like potentially a tapping or clicking noise then a squealing noise or chirp noise. Belt is new wasn't making the sound prior to the oil pump Install and oil change. Which bearings specifically? I didn't grease or lube the oil pump spindle, not sure if that could be the cause?

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The distributor rotates pretty easy, no resistance there. so if you didn't hold the distributor rotor, I think there's every chance that its not at the same timing it was. 

 

I mean, all you did was take off and refit the oil pump and distributor timing shaft, and now it idles considerably higher. timing. and its easy to prove one way or another. 

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16 hours ago, Ownallday said:

Is that normal?

No.  Your best option might be to just remove the pump and inspect the parts for wear. 

As far as the perceived performance improvement. if you timed it before then you should know what the timing was before you changed the pump.  Just check it again and see what it is now.  Advancing ignition timing can definitely give an engine more pep if it was less than optimum before.

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Speaking for myself, you’re taking a chance by still running that engine until you find out exactly where it coming from. If you didn’t have any strange noise until you’ve made a change then likely it’s something you’ve changed or altered. Good luck with your findings. Please report back.

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3 hours ago, jonbill said:

The distributor rotates pretty easy, no resistance there. so if you didn't hold the distributor rotor, I think there's every chance that its not at the same timing it was. 

 

I mean, all you did was take off and refit the oil pump and distributor timing shaft, and now it idles considerably higher. timing. and its easy to prove one way or another. 

Okay, I'll most likely just back track my work Tuesday. I tried adjusting timing yesterday but there was no change to my idle which was strange.

3 hours ago, AZDatsun said:

Does the noise change with RPM? Does it only happen while in gear or also while in neutral?

I can't hear it in neutral, however it does get faster as the engine revs higher while driving. I only hear it while pressing the gas pedal too.

21 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

No.  Your best option might be to just remove the pump and inspect the parts for wear. 

As far as the perceived performance improvement. if you timed it before then you should know what the timing was before you changed the pump.  Just check it again and see what it is now.  Advancing ignition timing can definitely give an engine more pep if it was less than optimum before.

That'll be the plan, I'll have to drive it one last time back to my job since I can lift the car easier there. I timed it a long time ago, actually a friend of mine timed it when he was getting a baseline tune for my triple webers. I had messed with it yesterday to see if changing it would decrease or increase idle and nothing changed

34 minutes ago, Yarb said:

Speaking for myself, you’re taking a chance by still running that engine until you find out exactly where it coming from. If you didn’t have any strange noise until you’ve made a change then likely it’s something you’ve changed or altered. Good luck with your findings. Please report back.

I won't be driving the car, only going to drive it one last time on Tues to bring it to work to work on it. It has to be related to the oil pump or spindle is my guess or the timing. Basically gonna start from scratch most likely. I'll post whatever I find.

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1 hour ago, Ownallday said:

I tried adjusting timing yesterday but there was no change to my idle which was strange.

I thought that you were using a timing light, not timing by ear.  Without the numbers it's pretty easy to get stuck down a rabbit hole.

Edited by Zed Head
+ easy
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As for static pressure from a pump, think of it as the compressed air inside a balloon.  The pressure is essentially uniform everywhere inside it.  The pressure inside ductwork of an HVAC system is similar, except the fluid is moving.  An oil pump creates a similar pressure that's  "essentially" uniform in the region near the OPS.  Static pressure is the force applied to all the sides of the containment vessel, and velocity pressure is the force of a blast of air, oil, etc directed at something, like a water hose against your car.

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