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Putting in a replacement L-28


Av8ferg

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So as luck would have it I had to take a different route. While I have 4 different thermostat housings, there are compatibility issues with all of them. Some are in rough shape with locked up fittings. Some are Z some are ZX and each believe it or not have some variation in opening sizes for sensors. It’s bizarre what Nissan did here but It creates problems. Some ports have tapered threads and some don’t. It’s a mystery what they did. So I when with a ZX one that was in nice shape, used various sensors I don’t need to plug holes I won’t use. I added 26” of wire an ran it the ECU temp sensor to the head near cylinder 5.
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So here’s a view of all the sensors in this housing. Only using the two on the right. The other two are because it’s next to impossible to find a plug to fit in these holes. You think you find one and as it tightens you can feel it wiggling so it would more than likely leak.
My ECU temp sensor is on the head, you can see it in the second pic.

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BTW, I’m not happy with MSA right now. I called today to ask them where my heater and Rad hoses are. They haven’t mailed them because some little other item in my basket was back ordered so they decided to sit on all the other parts. It’s been 4 weeks since I made the order and they didn’t even email to tell me what was going on. That’s really all I’m waiting for. Apparently the hoses are being mailed tomorrow.


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Nissan used BSPT on their tapered plumbing fittings.  You could probably take the old piece that fits in the hole and "machine" it to look better.  Chop the connector off.  I think that they all have a sealed well inside for the actual sensing element.

Or maybe find a plug on McMaster Carr.  Check/uncheck the boxes on the side to change the display.  

https://www.mcmaster.com/standard-pipe-fittings/thread-type~bspt/brass-and-bronze-pipe-and-pipe-fittings/type~plug/

The straight thread is probably BSPP.

https://www.ralstoninst.com/news/story/the-difference-between-npt-bspp-and-bspt-seals

Edited by Zed Head
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14 hours ago, Av8ferg said:


BTW, I’m not happy with MSA right now. I called today to ask them where my heater and Rad hoses are. They haven’t mailed them because some little other item in my basket was back ordered so they decided to sit on all the other parts. It’s been 4 weeks since I made the order and they didn’t even email to tell me what was going on. That’s really all I’m waiting for. Apparently the hoses are being mailed tomorrow.
 

I have a love/hate relationship with MSA.

Many years ago I ordered crankshaft and rod bearings. They were shipped loose in a box of packing peanuts. When they arrived every bearing shell had damage. I contacted them and they were incredulous, even told me it would be OK to install them and run them.

So I sent them back, paying shipping both ways.

 

Fast forward to early this year.

Started getting my 72 back into driving condition. Ordered a bunch of stuff, clutch, clutch cover, thermostat and housing, cam cover gaskets, head gaskets, and a dozen other items. 
 

Like you, the order was delayed, with no communications. I called them, they said they sent an email. Never got one. Turns out there is some problem with their email that they can’t work out, and other customers also have had that problem.

So they said there were some items on my order that were on back order. I asked that they send what they had and send the rest later. 
 

The head gaskets and cam cover gaskets showed up, packed loosely with the heavy clutch and pressure plate. The gaskets were destroyed from the clutch cover bouncing around in the box. They sent it FedEx Ground, an 800 mile trip, from LA to Seattle, that actually had the package go through Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Boise, Portland then Seattle.

Took two weeks,

The gaskets were destroyed. The box had the beginning of a hole in it from the clutch cover, and was one toss away from being ripped open.

To their credit, they sent replacement gaskets, no charge.

A month or so later the pan gaskets and a harmonic balancer arrived. They had wrapped the pan gaskets around the box the balancer was in, rather than packing the gaskets in a flat package. Again, the gaskets are not in good shape.

I give up on them. Don’t care if they have all the Z stuff, and good prices.

They do have a guy who is a member here, maybe you can reach out to him.

Or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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So, I’ve mostly had a good experience with them.  The reality is I’ve has some issues with all the Z retailers.  Zcardepot sent my the wrong tie rod and it was a pain to get them to sent me a replacement.  They wanted pictures and multiple detailed explanations.  I finally sent them a video showing the treads were for the wrong side, the whole process took over 3 weeks.   Then they asked me to send it back on my dime.  I never did and won’t.  Anyone need a drivers side tie rod 😁
 

I just want MSA to update their website to show things that back ordered or send you and email and ask how you want to proceed.  It’s simple, be now we are living in a world where the customer is no longer as valuable as the past.  You are almost a nuisance to some.  It’s hard to find quality people.   This is the new paradigm we have to live with.  I see it everywhere I go.  Prices are insane everywhere., workers are worse than ever…the sky is falling 🤣  
 

Edited by Av8ferg
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is that head port you have the coolant sensor installed in actually in the coolant? on my MN47 that is in the same place its not in the flow, just a threaded hole in the head. 

Dave, this sensor is not intended to be in coolant like the 280z one in the thermostat housing. It’s a dry sensor. Speculation talking with people with more knowledge than I think Nissan moved this sensor to the head to get a better indication of engine operating temp back where cooling is least efficient. The back of the engine being hotter by the mere fact it gets less air flow and coolant will likely take the path of least resistance nearer to the pump making the engine cooler up front. You have to assume Nissan kept trying to improve the engine and this was one iteration of this process. It’s only a guess.


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3 hours ago, Racer X said:

I have a love/hate relationship with MSA.

Many years ago I ordered crankshaft and rod bearings. They were shipped loose in a box of packing peanuts. When they arrived every bearing shell had damage. I contacted them and they were incredulous, even told me it would be OK to install them and run them.

So I sent them back, paying shipping both ways.

 

Fast forward to early this year.

Started getting my 72 back into driving condition. Ordered a bunch of stuff, clutch, clutch cover, thermostat and housing, cam cover gaskets, head gaskets, and a dozen other items. 
 

Like you, the order was delayed, with no communications. I called them, they said they sent an email. Never got one. Turns out there is some problem with their email that they can’t work out, and other customers also have had that problem.

So they said there were some items on my order that were on back order. I asked that they send what they had and send the rest later. 
 

The head gaskets and cam cover gaskets showed up, packed loosely with the heavy clutch and pressure plate. The gaskets were destroyed from the clutch cover bouncing around in the box. They sent it FedEx Ground, an 800 mile trip, from LA to Seattle, that actually had the package go through Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Boise, Portland then Seattle.

Took two weeks,

The gaskets were destroyed. The box had the beginning of a hole in it from the clutch cover, and was one toss away from being ripped open.

To their credit, they sent replacement gaskets, no charge.

A month or so later the pan gaskets and a harmonic balancer arrived. They had wrapped the pan gaskets around the box the balancer was in, rather than packing the gaskets in a flat package. Again, the gaskets are not in good shape.

I give up on them. Don’t care if they have all the Z stuff, and good prices.

They do have a guy who is a member here, maybe you can reach out to him.

Or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope you guys don't mind, I'm going to "at" the MSA guys and ZCD.  ZCD never responds but I think that he does read the posts.  The guys at MSA usually respond, and seem to address issues.  The penny-saving on shipping seems like a new one though.

@Joseph@TheZStore @Greg@TheZStore @James@TheZStore

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3 hours ago, Av8ferg said:

So, I’ve mostly had a good experience with them.  The reality is I’ve has some issues with all the Z retailers.  Zcardepot sent my the wrong tie rod and it was a pain to get them to sent me a replacement.  They wanted pictures and multiple detailed explanations.  I finally sent them a video showing the treads were for the wrong side, the whole process took over 3 weeks.   Then they asked me to send it back on my dime.  I never did and won’t.  Anyone need a drivers side tie rod 😁
 

I just want MSA to update their website to show things that back ordered or send you and email and ask how you want to proceed.  It’s simple, be now we are living in a world where the customer is no longer as valuable as the past.  You are almost a nuisance to some.  It’s hard to find quality people.   This is the new paradigm we have to live with.  I see it everywhere I go.  Prices are insane everywhere., workers are worse than ever…the sky is falling 🤣  
 

@Joseph@TheZStore @Greg@TheZStore @James@TheZStore

@zcardepot.com

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1 hour ago, Av8ferg said:


Dave, this sensor is not intended to be in coolant like the 280z one in the thermostat housing. It’s a dry sensor. Speculation talking with people with more knowledge than I think Nissan moved this sensor to the head to get a better indication of engine operating temp back where cooling is least efficient. The back of the engine being hotter by the mere fact it gets less air flow and coolant will likely take the path of least resistance nearer to the pump making the engine cooler up front. You have to assume Nissan kept trying to improve the engine and this was one iteration of this process. It’s only a guess.

Other manufacturers have moved to dry cylinder head temperature sensors.  I have a Ford that has one and they actually use the reading for the "coolant temperature" gauge in the dash.  And, it turns out, they just set the needle in the middle if the temperature fits within a wide range.

Anyway, on the Z's Nissan went to the head sensor with the P79 and P90 heads in the ZX's. They look almost identical.  The part numbers differ by one digit.  Actually, now I see the difference.  But I think that they have the same thread and can be interchanged.

I accidentally pulled the guts out of one of mine trying to remove the connector.  It's just a dry hole with a thermistor and silicone gel inside.

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10 hours ago, Zed Head said:

Anyway, on the Z's Nissan went to the head sensor with the P79 and P90 heads in the ZX's. They look almost identical.  The part numbers differ by one digit.  Actually, now I see the difference.  But I think that they have the same thread and can be interchanged.

I don't know about the aftermarket stuff, but the original OEM ZX sensors are a little different in the way they mount... On the Z version, the brass body portion is all one piece and the electrical guts are crimped to the body to finish the assembly. In contrast, on the ZX version, the tightening nut spins independent of the sensor body. The "body" portion is two distinct and separate pieces.

Why does that matter? Because if you use a ZX version with the spinning nut in a wet location like the Z thermostat housing, it will probably leak through the seam between the body and the nut. You could probably use a Z version in the side hole in a P79 or P90 head, but I would be wary of the converse of using a ZX version in a Z thermostat housing.

That pic above of the aftermarket ZX sensor looks like it's made pretty much the same as the Z version, so who knows?

Oh, and the connector key is in different locations between the two of them. Not an insurmountable issue, but something to be aware of.

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38 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

That pic above of the aftermarket ZX sensor looks like it's made pretty much the same as the Z version, so who knows?

I agree.

But thanks for clarifying, I think that you are right,  Obviously.  Now that you bring it up, I do remember the bottom "spinny" portion on the ZX parts.  So, maybe, probably, it's just a one-way possibility.  You can put a Z sensor in a ZX hole but you can't put a ZX sensor in a Z hole.  Or maybe you can't do either, although I think that Av8ferg did, if I read his words correctly.  He should be just fine, right?

I was surprised at the prices.  Things are getting expensive in Z world.  So, a one-way swap, Z part in ZX hole, looks reasonable.  Might help the wrecking yard and CL searches also.

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I think the reason they did the spinny nut on the ZX version is for better thermal conductivity between the head casting and the sensor tip. I think sensor tip is designed to bottom out in the dry hole against the aluminum of the head. And they did that spinny nut thing so you weren't scraping the sensor tip as you tightened the nut. You could hold the sensor from rotating while you tightened the nut.

Of course, that would also make it such that the spinny nut would not necessarily bottom out against any sort of sealing washer. I wonder of they used an O-ring seal there instead of a brass crush washer. I've got some ZX stuff around here someplace and if I can find it, I'll take a look.

In any event... If you filled the hole with thermal conductive goop it would probably be fine. I can't believe the head temp changes that fast and I can't believe there would be a huge thermal gradient between the head and the sensor regardless if it bottomed out or not. But I wasn't there when they designed it.

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That's a good summary.  The aftermarket guys probably went cheap on their design and just grind the tip in to the bottom of the hole or let it sit above the bottom, not contacting.  I was wondering about the washer also.  No point to it if the sensor tip is supposed to make contact.

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