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Zx 5 speed rebuild


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So Cody's Wagon is getting closer to being whole. We need to rebuild the 5 speed we had in it because 1-2 was baulky and reverse was stubborn.

I believe this is an FS5W71B wide ratio

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I am trying to source a reverse idler. May have a lead on that. I have looked at @Dave WM 's thread, @Av8ferg 's thread and one that @EuroDat was in. I will probably use Dave's videos for tear down and build but I need to get all the parts here. I will also use Zkars recent teardown thread. Who did people order parts from? Can I just order a kit that will cover most of the parts I need? Do I need to order the bushing for the rear end (Titan bushing possibly)? I have Chas' parts pdf and exploded view although I wonder how many of those parts are NLA (the list is from 2012) nd I really don't know which are priority parts to replace...

I remember there being one 5spd that had some parts that weren't available, maybe some synchros, black or something. How do I identify that?

Also what should we check before teardown? there was a post by Chas that talked about checking baulk ring to gear clearance but I didn't get it to print very well. Also the rings that the shifter forks ride in appear (to me) to have some pretty significant grooving...

 

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I am going to rebuild my wide ratio FS5W71B, hopefully over the holidays. I bought the rebuild kit from RockAuto (and I confirm what zkars states in his thread: that the kit seems to be the same one sold in other places, and contains Japanese bearings). I bought all the other stuff on EuroDat’s list (seals, main shaft and countershaft nuts, oil gutter, detent balls and springs, ...) from Nissan (Courtesy, I think, but I will check tomorrow if you want).


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Edited by pogden
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Hi Charles,

Most important before you strip it down is to check end play on all the gears. You can not check it properly once you dismantle it. The clearance varies per gear, so check the manual for the tolerances. If it exceeds the maximum tolerances, you can fix it by replacing the gears or a machine shop.

The clearance on the baulk rings can be checked after dismantling. They should have a clearance of 1.25 to 1.60mm. If they are getting close to 1.25mm I would consider replacing them. It's one of the clearances that effects the way changing gears feels.

If you do need to replace the baulk rings, I would strongly suggest using the genuine Nissan parts. Yes, I'm sure there are aftermarket units out there that will perform as well, but there are a lot that don't and I can't tell the difference through a simple photo on a website.

The next important thing to giving your transmission that new snappy gear change feeling. Replace the shifting insert springs on both hubs. There are 3 in each synchroniser hub. P/N: 32602-32200

The other springs that should be replaced are the checking springs in the selectors and the return spring behind the return spring plunger.

 

The reverse gear does look pretty shabby, but if you can't find another to replace it you can "repair" it. The most important thing is that the teeth are clean and not chipped.

You can have the reverse gear machined back until the teeth are cleanand bevel the ends. Not cheap, but if you have nothing else it will work fine. The only thing you will notice is your gear stick will travel just a little further before reverse engages. If you need help on this, I can explain further. First choice is try and locate a replacement.

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Just for clarity, I updated the parts list in the resources sections. I came across an alternative for the shifting insert springs. If you can not find the little springs, some aftermarket companies supply an alternative circlip (set of 2) with p/n: . I think they come from a Chevy transmission, but can't confirm that.

Not sure how they perform compared to the originals, but it is an alternative.

Spring-Shifting insert.JPG

 

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I ordered the rockauto transmission kit that @zKars found from his research thread. I need to sit down and come up with an order for courtesy nissan. Cody and I will check the tranny sometime this week. Then wait on parts to arrive for disassembly

Which factory manual is correct for this tranny? I am assuming 280zx...

Edited by Patcon
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8 hours ago, EuroDat said:

Hi Charles,

Most important before you strip it down is to check end play on all the gears. You can not check it properly once you dismantle it. The clearance varies per gear, so check the manual for the tolerances. If it exceeds the maximum tolerances, you can fix it by replacing the gears or a machine shop.

The clearance on the baulk rings can be checked after dismantling. They should have a clearance of 1.25 to 1.60mm. If they are getting close to 1.25mm I would consider replacing them. It's one of the clearances that effects the way changing gears feels.

If you do need to replace the baulk rings, I would strongly suggest using the genuine Nissan parts. Yes, I'm sure there are aftermarket units out there that will perform as well, but there are a lot that don't and I can't tell the difference through a simple photo on a website.

The next important thing to giving your transmission that new snappy gear change feeling. Replace the shifting insert springs on both hubs. There are 3 in each synchroniser hub. P/N: 32602-32200

The other springs that should be replaced are the checking springs in the selectors and the return spring behind the return spring plunger.

 

The reverse gear does look pretty shabby, but if you can't find another to replace it you can "repair" it. The most important thing is that the teeth are clean and not chipped.

You can have the reverse gear machined back until the teeth are cleanand bevel the ends. Not cheap, but if you have nothing else it will work fine. The only thing you will notice is your gear stick will travel just a little further before reverse engages. If you need help on this, I can explain further. First choice is try and locate a replacement.

Thanks, Chas

I think I follow all of this

6 hours ago, EuroDat said:

Just for clarity, I updated the parts list in the resources sections. I came across an alternative for the shifting insert springs. If you can not find the little springs, some aftermarket companies supply an alternative circlip (set of 2) with p/n: . I think they come from a Chevy transmission, but can't confirm that.

Not sure how they perform compared to the originals, but it is an alternative.

Spring-Shifting insert.JPG

 

Also I was checking some of the parts numbers in the revised list and found the bearings are NLA from Nissan but obviously available elsewhere and the baulk ring for 5th shows as available as "32604-3N21"

My transmission has the metal speedo drive, does that help determine year. Dave WM's had a plastic drive it seems

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Hi Charles,

Looking at your photos, you have the earlier fibre synchro ring for 5th gear. That part number I quoted is for the later version 71B and 71C in the 300ZX.

You will need the manual for the 280Z 1977. The manual for the 280ZX wide and close ratio has the later type synchro on 5th gear.

 

The part number you will need for 5th gear synchro is P/N: 32361-20100, but it has been NLA for more than 15 years. If 5th didn't have any problems, you should be able to use it again.

The original p/n for the 1st to 4th synchro was 32611-14600, but has long since been replaced by 32604-P0100.

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7 hours ago, EuroDat said:

Hi Charles,

Looking at your photos, you have the earlier fibre synchro ring for 5th gear. That part number I quoted is for the later version 71B and 71C in the 300ZX.

You will need the manual for the 280Z 1977. The manual for the 280ZX wide and close ratio has the later type synchro on 5th gear.

 

The part number you will need for 5th gear synchro is P/N: 32361-20100, but it has been NLA for more than 15 years. If 5th didn't have any problems, you should be able to use it again.

The original p/n for the 1st to 4th synchro was 32611-14600, but has long since been replaced by 32604-P0100.

Thanks Chas

Thats interesting,  I am pretty sure we pulled it from a 280zx. Although it could have been an early one

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I ended up using the one ZH mentioned that he sent me (on yet another trans rebuild I did). That being said, I doubt those chips will make any real diff, even with the good gear installed its "balky" at times. this is most likey due to design, its a crash box setup. I would recommend you just dress them up a bit, a flat file to take off the sharp edges, but again I don't know if it will matter any.

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4 hours ago, Patcon said:

I was noticing that the 5th had parts that looked like the Porsche synchro

Its not. The porsche type synchros are steel and this one is a fibre type clutch synchro.

I think they changed somewhere in the 79-80 model 280ZX. About the same time they dropped the 4 speed. Of course all close ratios have the 5th warner synchro, but the 2+2 variant still used the wide ratio FS5W71B.

Btw. Very bad idea for a manufacturer to mix servo type (porsche) and warner type synchros in the same transmission. The brass rings require GL-4 and the steel servo type requires a GL-5 lubricant like the diff.

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1 hour ago, Dave WM said:

I ended up using the one ZH mentioned that he sent me (on yet another trans rebuild I did). That being said, I doubt those chips will make any real diff, even with the good gear installed its "balky" at times. this is most likey due to design, its a crash box setup. I would recommend you just dress them up a bit, a flat file to take off the sharp edges, but again I don't know if it will matter any.

I agree. The only concern I have is the chipped teeth can crack further and (even though small) a chance the small pieces end up between the gears on there way down.

Charles: You mentioned in another thread it has 23 teeth. I have only seen 21 and 22 teeth. Didn't know they were also with 23 teeth.

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11 minutes ago, EuroDat said:

I agree. The only concern I have is the chipped teeth can crack further and (even though small) a chance the small pieces end up between the gears on there way down.

Charles: You mentioned in another thread it has 23 teeth. I have only seen 21 and 22 teeth. Didn't know they were also with 23 teeth.

We counted twice but I will count them again. I will also take some time to pin down the ratios and the year

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We double checked, reverse idler is 23 teeth. Is it possible it was replaced with the wrong part?

It appears this tranny has had work. The rear staked nut is also peened

20201218_163653.jpg

20201218_163658.jpg

Also that nut is a standard threading (RH)

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X Main Shaft Nut Datsun Nissan FS5W71B FS5C71B Overdrive & F5C71B Direct Drive 5-Speed 32354-A7400 32354-E9800 32354-E9802 32354-E9804

I think I'm gonna need to find one of these or get it made. Can someone provide a cross reference for what vehicles these would have been in. Do the 4 speeds have this nut? they don't do they?

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4 hours ago, Patcon said:

32354-A7400 32354-E9800 32354-E9802 32354-E9804

That is the correct nut for your main shaft. It is an M27x1.00mm right hand thread nut. It fits all the 5 speeds FS5W71B from 1977 to 1980.

After 1980 the nut changed to left hand thread. I think that is when they also changed the 5th synchro. I think fibre synchro is right hand thread and brass synchro is left hand thread.

You don't need to replace it. There is a trick to recover an old nut and safely reuse it. The section that is hammered down to lock it in place doesn't have any thread inside. It doesn't add any strength to the nut, just a way to lock it in place.

Remove the nut using a small srewdriver or similar, you can drive it in between the nut and shaft to open it enough to remove it without too much damage. Side the nut over something like a socket in a bench vice and use a small hammer to peen around the burred section. You want to get it to point where it doesn't bind too much when you screw it on.

When you rebuild the transmission and fit the nut. Tighten the nut and check where the burred section lines up. It probably won't line up with the groove, but if it does then have the face contacting the gear hub washer machined 0.5mm. This will turn the nut 180 degrees to the groove. Every 0.25mm will move the nut 90 degrees around the shaft, 1mm being the pitch.

You can do this with the overdrive nut as well.

Edited by EuroDat
Rht and lht
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@patcon, I saw your post earlier today and was wondering the same thing. I have a 4-speed in the shed, will try to find time to have a look. I haven’t started on my wide ratio yet, and I know mine came from a 79 ZX. It will be interesting to see whether mine has a RH or LH nut.

This page has some interesting data, http://mmerlinn.com/catalog/dox_angel/dt_w7b/dtw7b010.htm and the company itself sells recycled parts. For what it’s worth, my transmission guy said they were very helpful in finding a “good” input shaft for my close ratio.


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1 hour ago, pogden said:

@patcon, I saw your post earlier today and was wondering the same thing. I have a 4-speed in the shed, will try to find time to have a look. I haven’t started on my wide ratio yet, and I know mine came from a 79 ZX. It will be interesting to see whether mine has a RH or LH nut.

This page has some interesting data, http://mmerlinn.com/catalog/dox_angel/dt_w7b/dtw7b010.htm, and the company itself sells recycled parts. For what it’s worth, my transmission guy said they were very helpful in finding a “good” input shaft for my close ratio.


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The 4speed nut is an M30x1.00mm. Right hand thread. Well it should be iirc.

Nut M30x1mm RHT 4140 chromoly F4W71B 71-80.jpeg

Nut M27x1mm RHT 4140 chromoly FS5W71B 77-80-01.jpeg

Edited by EuroDat
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10 hours ago, EuroDat said:

That is the correct nut for your main shaft. It is an M27x1.00mm right hand thread nut. It fits all the 5 speeds FS5W71B from 1977 to 1980.

After 1980 the nut changed to left hand thread. I think that is when they also changed the 5th synchro. I think fibre synchro is right hand thread and brass synchro is left hand thread.

You don't need to replace it. There is a trick to recover an old nut and safely reuse it. The section that is hammered down to lock it in place doesn't have any thread inside. It doesn't add any strength to the nut, just a way to lock it in place.

Remove the nut using a small srewdriver or similar, you can drive it in between the nut and shaft to open it enough to remove it without too much damage. Side the nut over something like a socket in a bench vice and use a small hammer to peen around the burred section. You want to get it to point where it doesn't bind too much when you screw it on.

When you rebuild the transmission and fit the nut. Tighten the nut and check where the burred section lines up. It probably won't line up with the groove, but if it does then have the face contacting the gear hub washer machined 0.5mm. This will turn the nut 180 degrees to the groove. Every 0.25mm will move the nut 90 degrees around the shaft, 1mm being the pitch.

You can do this with the overdrive nut as well.

How would deal with the punched spot? I thought I would drill it out some to make it thin and then try to thread it off...

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10 hours ago, pogden said:

@patcon, I saw your post earlier today and was wondering the same thing. I have a 4-speed in the shed, will try to find time to have a look. I haven’t started on my wide ratio yet, and I know mine came from a 79 ZX. It will be interesting to see whether mine has a RH or LH nut.

This page has some interesting data, http://mmerlinn.com/catalog/dox_angel/dt_w7b/dtw7b010.htm, and the company itself sells recycled parts. For what it’s worth, my transmission guy said they were very helpful in finding a “good” input shaft for my close ratio.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I couldn't get the link to work

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3 hours ago, Patcon said:

How would deal with the punched spot? I thought I would drill it out some to make it thin and then try to thread it off...

The punch spot is from a previous rebuild and not doing anything. The only spot you can lock the nut is where the groove is on the shaft.

Someone has already reused the nut.

I would rebuild the transmission and if the nut lines up where it is aready used, then take action the move it to new metal by facing the nut or adding and extra shim.

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