Just noticed that car was on baT in 2020. The new owner did some work on it. Wonder if the new work diminished or enhanced the original Restoration work. Original > Restored > Enhanced?

It's definitely shinier now than then. 105,240 + 9,000 = 114,240 to break even.

"...A paint correction service was performed, and the paint was ceramic-coated in September 2021. ..."

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-datsun-240z-127/

Edited Monday at 10:53 PM4 days by Zed Head
+ i

Yikes! Also see some nastiness in the comments, (468!), from 2020. Didn't read through them but Lstepp4re seems involved. I don't keep track of all of the players on BaT so not really sure who he is.

It's up to $70,000.

Edited Monday at 11:02 PM4 days by Zed Head

Yes, thats the point Im trying to make. I also note that Carl has this particular car logged on his "Vintage Z" Owners Register. The photo of the car shows that it had original steel wheels and "Z" style hubcaps installed, I assume when it left the remanufacturer. So, the installation of the Panasports is yet another change from "Factory".

53 minutes ago, 240 in OZ said:

Yes, thats the point Im trying to make. I also note that Carl has this particular car logged on his "Vintage Z" Owners Register. The photo of the car shows that it had original steel wheels and "Z" style hubcaps installed, I assume when it left the remanufacturer. So, the installation of the Panasports is yet another change from "Factory".

About this Vintage Z - 

As I recall - this one first showed up for sale about 20 miles North of me. New Port Richey or Holliday Florida. 

A friend of mine went to look it over, and reported that it was very poorly cared for.  The next time we saw it, was its first sale on BAT. My fiend remarked that it had been very well detailed for that sale and looked 100% better than his personal inspection. 

Now we see it again, with an owner that put some significant funds and I’m sure elbow grease into it - to bring it up to better condition.

Will the customer modifications hurt its market value?  Not as much as the current market itself,  the mod’s might hurt it a little as most collectors don’t want to mess with fixing anything.

Why are the Vintage Z valued so highly? From what I have read here they were built as a marketing exercise. They were supposedly built to be as new but not original, lots of parts and finishes that were not on the 240Z when first built. Additionally they seemed to have been built to a price rather than price no object. They also came out of a number of restoration shops so there seems to be no consistency with the builds, the ones done by Pierre have underseal on the chassis. At the end of the day what is more desirable, an early 240Z restored to original using NOS parts or a Vintage Z? 1970 240Z 01606 BAT $165k, 1970 240Z 12070 BAT $129k

SpeedRoo - This is a mystery that I too don't understand. I understand the attraction to a special "Program" car but one built to a high standard. Would another manufacturer put out such a product? Now, the 3rd iteration cars were much nicer - to a point - but all of the 3 batches were indeed built to a price, a low price. While I'd be glad to go into more detail most of the occupants of this forum have little or no interest. Might A Fool and His Money Are Soon Parted apply?

If it's possible, try contacting the people who placed these six figure bids and ask them? I can understand the emotions behind an auction, but there's got to be good reasons why these cars are selling in the high digits. In my opinion, this kind of money is only spent by people with the cash to do it. Unless they have inherited the money, they are likely very smart with their life choices and will have a valid reason to throw six figures at such a car. It typically won't be a whim and they will not do it unless there's some kind of investment value. BTW, "value" is a subjective term and doesn't always equal money. ;)

Just watched this video with Randy Jaffe who owns a Vintage Z and had 8 at one time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_TjHwA1xgE&t=161s Some interesting comments. The spreadsheet shows 59 cars but only 37 sold, must have been a few that were sold off unfinished. What's the 3rd iteration you mentioned @zspert

A person could ask why any of the old 240Z's sell for high price. Or why people pay high prices for Bob Sharp cars. Or why first edition comic books sell for high prices. Collectors have their own values.

Here's an article about the program.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/nissans-z-store-restored-240zs-might-not-have-made-the-company-any-profits-but-they-did-help-save-the-z/

Old pieces of colored paper sell for six million dollars!

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/05/style/superman-comic-record-6-million-intl-scli#:

The comments are focused on the AC system for some odd reason...

SpeedRoo - If you're interested in more on this subject, like the 3 iterations, I'll be glad to talk on the phone or through email however this crowd clearly is fixated on that distant shiny object as opposed to facts on this greasy, dirty planet. I'll leave it at that.

For those 2 chaps that responded to my question about the application of the replated parts. They will be going on what is probably my last restoration - 1972 Datsun 510 Wagon.

15 hours ago, SpeedRoo said:

Why are the Vintage Z valued so highly? From what I have read here they were built as a marketing exercise.

You've pretty much answered your own question there. And when it comes down to it, we'd have to judge it as a success in those very marketing terms let alone anything else. The press loved it. The project caught the imagination and support of influential figures in the North American Z 'scene' - including the kind who insisted it was a first for a major manufacturer (it wasn't) and "unique" in the auto manufacturing world (it wasn't). Those same figures still vaunt it today. We've certainly discussed the topic here on classiczcars.com many times over the years and our fellow member @26th-Z wrote what I believe is the definitive essay on the VZ cars. It was - when all is all said and done - a big deal in the story of the Z car's mid-life crisis.

But as is often the case, the hype and commentary from offstage created unrealistic expectations. The misleading term 'Factory Restoration' was thrown around a lot and many swallowed it whole, including members of the specialist press. The VZ cars often get judged as though they were intended to be 100% factory correct concours restorations when that was clearly never the case. You can see the same thing happening in the current BaT auction.

14 hours ago, SpeedRoo said:

Just watched this video with Randy Jaffe who owns a Vintage Z and had 8 at one time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_TjHwA1xgE&t=161s Some interesting comments.

LOL. Another bunch of answers to your "why are the Vintage Z valued so highly?" question in there. It's the kind of people appearing in that video - and mentioned in it - who are part of the hype. High profile figures in the old Z car world, but often too the Typhoid Mary-like spreaders of bad information. Whilst looking in the engine bay of a VZ car we get the words 'Nickel' and 'Cad' plating thrown around (its mostly Zinc...) and a false story about the commissioning of re-pop braided hoses (Nishi san of Revive Jalopy in Japan was responsible for this and for many other previously unobtainable parts too). We even see a modern fuel filter pointed at as though it is some kind of ancient relic.

Some typical 'Mr K Lore' thrown in for good measure when discussing early cars/chassis numbers. Larry Chen asks "why is it that the US got the early cars and how come Japan didn't get the early numbers...?" and Jaffe's answer talks about the '240Z'. Japan did get early cars (they got them earlier than the US too...) but the problem here is the congenital misconception that the 'US 240Z' is something over and above the whole S30-series Z family as conceived, planned, designed, styled, engineered and produced before the end of 1969. To the point that anything else is some kind of afterthought. We get Katayama's "PUSH" related as a one-man quest to get 'his' project made rather than the more realistic scenario of him lobbying for influence on something that was already happening. Apparently Mr Carl Beck ('Z car encyclopaedia') "can tell you how many went to England, Australia and its all very limited...", but there's no mention of Japan in their 'Z car' story. You can look at pretty much any volume - and non-volume - selling sports car of the 60s and 70s period and see the same story; volume sales in the USA. But I've yet to see any Triumph, Austin-Healey, MG or Jaguar being vaunted as 'Made Expressly For The USA'. VW shipped just shy of 400,000 Type 1 Beetles into the USA in 1968 alone, so 'Made For The USA'? Mainland USA was the biggest single potential market for just about any product of the period concerned, but I would like to credit at least some US consumers as being sophisticated enough to see through all the "we made this for YOU" type sales slogans.

So, why are the Vintage Z cars valued so highly? It's in large part due to the influence of the kind of people who had eight of them, and sold six of them to somebody who now has eight. Larry Chen will make a video about them! People listen, and look up to, movers and shakers like that. Our old BaT friend Larry Stepp (he's a BIG fan of the classiczcars forum) made a prediction the last time this current BaT auction VZ car was up for sale. He said it would be worth 250k USD in a few years. There's the hype. It's not so much to do with the physical details of the object (which is not too shabby, to say the least), it's the perceived kudos and status within a fairly small cohort of people who are looked up to as sooth-sayers and mystics. Buy "one of the 37" and - hey! - maybe you'll even get the pleasure of putting the hose clamps on 'the right way round'...