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Redwing

Somethings wrong...

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Autozone should have the hose and clamps, if you're talking about the fuel injection hose, Advance has them.  5/16" High Pressure Fuel Injection Hose and packs of high pressure hose clamps.

5/16" Automotive Fuel Injection Hose Clamp (4-Pack)

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Have you been following?  The 2 hoses connected to the nipples on the gas tank are the ones I need to replace.  Just need to confirm if you are talking about these same ones.

Thanks bunches!

Jai

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Jai,

Also consider getting a gasket for the drain plug if you drain the tank that way. I didn't replace it when I drained your tank previously because I didn't have one handy. Perhaps someone on this thread can tell you the right size for the gasket, since I can't remember for the life of me. 

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On 2/1/2017 at 9:56 AM, Redwing said:

Have you been following?  The 2 hoses connected to the nipples on the gas tank are the ones I need to replace.  Just need to confirm if you are talking about these same ones.

Thanks bunches!

Jai

Sorry, I am talking about after the fuel pump for the "high pressure (high dollar) hose".  Coming out of the tank is 3/8".  If you are going to drain the tank this is a "must read".  http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/fuel/gastank/index.htm

DSC08607.JPG
In this pic you can see a lot:

  • Metal sheet that protects the gas lines from road debris
  • Fuel hose to motor via Fram filter
  • Disolved hose particles in Fram G3 filter
  • 10mm or 3/8" fuel hose
  • Fuel return line
  • Vent Hose to carbon canister and backflow valve
  • passenger side fuel tank strap with 14mm nut
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Just now, siteunseen said:

Sorry, I am talking about after the fuel pump for the "high pressure (high dollar) hose".  Coming out of the tank is 3/8".  If you are going to drain the tank this is a "must read".  http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/fuel/gastank/index.htm

DSC08607.JPG
In this pic you can see a lot:

  • Metal sheet that protects the gas lines from road debris
  • Fuel hose to motor via Fram filter
  • Disolved hose particles in Fram G3 filter
  • 10mm or 3/8" fuel hose
  • Fuel return line
  • Vent Hose to carbon canister and backflow valve
  • passenger side fuel tank strap with 14mm nut

Thank you Site.  I would guess that Auto Zone will have reference to the length.  I'll  be getting them tomorrow, and Michael will put them on soon.  We haven't  set a date for when yet.  Thanks for all the help.

Jai 

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Replacing the CTS ( Engine Temp to ECU )  has been mentioned several times by various member, but it's not 100% clear if a new one was ever installed???? 

Has the Coolant Temperature sensor ( two prong ) ever been measured with an Ohm meter or better yet replaced. Bear in mind that the resistance varies with heat. so just checking resistance at ambient temperature may not be adequate. The two tiny prongs are hard to clean. Use a good quality electrical cleaner such as Dioxit ( Spray type ) or Weicon Electrical. Contact spray. The Weicon product ( made in Germany )  is fantastic. Spray it on old corroded contacts and 10 minutes later they look like new.  I notice that you mentioned that you cleaned the bullet connections, but what about the connections at the actual CTS?  Or was that the TCS you mentioned? 

Quote

Checked TCS cleaned contacts, found AFM broken

Have you checked the spark quality yet? That should be at the top of your list. Your plugs are horribly fouled. Weak spark will do that... as well as a dozen other things, but you have to have good spark quality as a baseline. 

Edit: I just noticed that the new plugs you installed are the wrong Part number. You Installed BPR5EY-11. Those are 1.1mm or .042" pre-gapped plugs . Those are not correct for a  1975 or 1976 280Z . You should be using a BPR5EY or BPR6EY plug. No suffix ( 11 )  on the end. That is a regular .8 mm or .031" gapped plug. ..031 to .035" is the FSM recommended gap for the 75 and 76 models. You woud gap new plugs to the lessor figure. The weaker Trignition in these units requires the smaller gapped plug. 

Not worried about heat range difference. I understand why you installed the 5 heat range. Those are the optional Hotter plugs by NGK. That's OK for now, you don't drive the car much. And 6's would foul even worse.

Just a note on NGK plug numbers. BPR5EY.  The P  stands for projected tip. for resistor plug. Y for V gap electrode. These revisions are are all good for producing better spark quality. Resistor plugs actually produce a stronger spark than non-resistor plug. ( Can be explained later. Techno mumbo jumbo ) 

Edited by Chickenman

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I think that several guys from CZCC were out there a while ago and ran through the EFI tests at the ECU connector.  That's the place to start, the ECU connector, I'd say.  Then dig deeper if the numbers are off.  

Still, Jai said that she never changed the plugs after the ECU replacement.  So the earlier suggestion of a complete tune-up before getting carried away still seems reasonable.

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^ Uhh.. that would make sense. I've been sick as a Dog with the Flu for the last month, so I missed a lot of posts.   Just saw Jai's post on January 19th where she listed what was done in Chronological order. 

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On 2/4/2017 at 6:09 AM, Chickenman said:

^ Uhh.. that would make sense. I've been sick as a Dog with the Flu for the last month, so I missed a lot of posts.   Just saw Jai's post on January 19th where she listed what was done in Chronological order. 

Aghhhh..... that's the pits being sick that long.  Hope you are feeling better and improve more each day.

Michael is coming over today to repair the gas leak.  I got the hose and clamps.  Also got the spark plugs, NGK BPR5EY.  I had to educate the guy at Auto Zone.  He probably brought out 4 different sets before he found the ones I requested.  Ha!  Maybe Michael will have enough time to put them in today, as my son is sick and cannot do it as he said he would.  

Will let you all know how things are improving with RedBird.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Jai

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On 2/1/2017 at 4:46 PM, SteveJ said:

Jai,

Also consider getting a gasket for the drain plug if you drain the tank that way. I didn't replace it when I drained your tank previously because I didn't have one handy. Perhaps someone on this thread can tell you the right size for the gasket, since I can't remember for the life of me. 

Hi Steve,

I found the drain plug size, it is a 12 mm plug.  When reading in the url for atlanticz regarding gas tank removal that Site sent, it was right there.

Thank you Site!

Jai

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Now it rings a bell. You'll probably need a 1/2" gasket. I seem to recall that is the size I needed. The extra 0.52 mm clearance is needed to get past the threads easily.

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Hi friends,

The gas lines are replaced!  Good timing too, the gas leak had gotten worse with Redbird sitting immobile since parked, after being towed home.  It was now visibly dripping.  Glad I had not driven her when she did start, while waiting for the lines to be replaced.  Phew!

Michael worked his magic last night, and they're done.  Forgot, the new clamps that were suggested - 1/2" X 9/16" - were too small.  They would not go on, could not be used.  So Michael had to replace the old ones.  So if you all do this job, use the slightly larger clamps.

But it was late and he didn't get to the spark plugs.  So I'm hoping my son will get well soon and do them, open and pull the ECU to check the connectors plus Deoxit them, (my body will not contort into that position) and replace the fuel filter too.

In the meantime, I'll be checking the places pointed out to me, to make sure connections are secure, using Deoxit on all.

Next is changing the oil.  That's all folks,  stay tuned!

 Jai

Edited by Redwing
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I applaud you getting it all done, just one thing. Try it between each thing, try after plugs then try again after ECU clean, again after any other corrective actions.

The idea is not to create a new problem, not likely but possible. so if the plugs get it working, then do the ECU, should still work, etc...

Also assuming you get it going, check the plugs again after say 20-30 miles on it. You want to see if the fouling is due to a chronic long term slightly rich OR something drastic that will cause issues quickly. If the latter then you know you still have problem, the former, just keep in mind to check plugs maybe after 1 year as it may not be a problem at all.

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17 hours ago, SteveJ said:

Now it rings a bell. You'll probably need a 1/2" gasket. I seem to recall that is the size I needed. The extra 0.52 mm clearance is needed to get past the threads easily.

I have been looking online, just to check prices (for many things), and the fuel drain gasket comes in several types.  What type did you get for your Z?   Nylon, rubber, synthetic, etc?  I had no idea there would be choices.  I thought it would be good to get one to have on hand.  :D

I did find NGK spark plug wires to fit my RB, for $28 on Amazon.

Thanks,

Jai 

Edited by Redwing
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Ok, so I found some time to go check on Redbird with limited tools.  Jai had purchased new plugs and I replaced them, They were very much in need. I visually checked all the connections to the switches and they were all good. Checked the ECU connections, all good. Everything still had dielectric grease that SteveJ had put on. I replaced a couple of fuel intake hoses at the fuel filter that were a little cracked.  Also, I replaced the Fuel Filter and rotor button that Jai had purchased. I did not replace the Distributer cap, mainly because we didn't have a new one, but I did scrape the contact points.  When prowling around I noticed the BCDD wire was disconnected and reconnected it to the harness. We started it up and purred like a kitten, nice and smooth.  

Next we took it down the road about 3 miles so we could hear the roaring Jai had mentioned.  It's the clutch slipping, plain and simple. I could give it some throttle at shift and could just feel it.  You hear the Engine rev but the scenery doesn't go by any faster. That's a really expensive thing for Jai and It's slipping bad enough to be a high priority.  Unfortunately I don't have the capability to do that for her.

Now, here is the other issue,  We dove it to the gas station to put in some gas.  Everything is running fine except for the clutch.  When leaving the gas station to push it a little harder, maybe 500ft away, about 2500-3000 rpm (no tach), it just shut down. We pulled over and tried to restart but no luck.  Her Fuel pressure gauge was reading about 15 PSI. Even when trying to start .  When it runs, it stays around 30 PSI.  We let it sit for a little while I was trying to think. I could hear the fuel pump and all the fuel lines were good. It was getting spark. I didn't check the air filter, but it seemed to be ok.  I was starting to think it was temp related because that is right about the time when the temp gauge got to to operating temperature.  It did not overheat.  After cooling down a little it started right up, back to 30 PSI.   

It was getting dark.  We started back on the road approaching a red light.  The engine didn't shut down but I thought it wise to let it cool a little longer before stopping in traffic.  It was one of those moments when I knew I didn't want to get stuck at a red light and decided pull into before said gas station with the clutch slipping (badly) and all of a sudden the horn pad falls into my lap all while thinking about the engine temp.  I had a little sensory overload.  We made it safely to a parking spot and let it cool a little longer and an underwear check.  Anybody have a spare horn pad spring so that does happen again?  She's missing that piece.

We made it back to Jai's house (3-4 miles) at dark.  Anyone have Ideas, the water temp sender and sensors were replaced a little over a year ago, but not the thermotime switch.  The previous problem with Redbird shutting down (10-11/15?) wound up being bad gas with water in it.

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Clamp off the return line a little bit more at a time. Adjust the clutch pedal, it worked for me on my 240.  It slipped so bad I could hardly back up the driveway then after adjusting I could chirp the tires. It's measurements are in the FSM.

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1 hour ago, gwri8 said:

 Her Fuel pressure gauge was reading about 15 PSI. Even when trying to start .  When it runs, it stays around 30 PSI.  

We let it sit for a little while I was trying to think. I could hear the fuel pump and all the fuel lines were good

 The previous problem with Redbird shutting down (10-11/15?) wound up being bad gas with water in it.

That's some good observing.  Reminds me of a problem I had with my fuel pump relay, where it would not power the pump when I tried to start it.  Luckily for me I have a relay bypass switch to run the pump.  I posted on it in the past and even took a picture of the solenoid coils.  CO said they looked burnt.  In 76 the pump relay is combined with the EFI relay.

You said though, that you could hear the pump running.  So, that doesn't really fit with bad power to the pump.  Seems more like a floater in the tank, clogging the inlet.

Didn't' know that water in the gas was part of the original problem.  Maybe she does have some little vandals in the neighborhood.  Might be worth time to drain the tank and check.  I remember her quest for a locking cap.

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10 or 12 feet of speaker wire with alligator clips makes a good fuel pump straight wire. Get some clips off an old battery charger for the other end.  I use mine when my gal friends want to get spanky/sparky.ROFL

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If there is an issue with the fuel pump relay, the good news is that replacements are readily available. Just search for Volkswagen Bosch fuel pump relay. Nissan licensed the Bosch system. The bad news is that it's still $60+ for the relay.

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Hi all,

I received the distributor cap today.  Visually it  looks too little, even tho I got it from a site that had me put my car info in to tell me if it was a correct fit.  Ordered it because it was a match.  Have not gone out and compared it side by side yet.  If the distributor cap is what is needed would that cause the problem of stalling the way Greg wrote about?  Or will that fix it?

I need to figure this problem out soon.  My son has been letting me drive his work SUV.  Talk about strange, it is like driving a big bus or RV.   And now he is questioning at what stage the repairs are for RB.  Which feels like he is going to want the SUV back.  I'm sure he needs it.  

Soooo, after I replace the dist. cap, drive her to check, if she fails what would be the recommendation of my next move?   Just trying to get ahead on where to go next if she won't stay running.  

Thanks for everything,

Jai

Edited by Redwing

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19 minutes ago, Redwing said:

I received the distributor cap today.  Visually it  looks too little, even tho I got it from a site that had me put my car info in to tell me if it was a correct fit.

The early Z's had a distributor cap that was visibly smaller from the later ones, maybe there was a mix up.

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 Jai

 Remembering back to the times it has shut down, is there anything similar in the failures? A smell, a feel, a sound change,? Similar condition? Going uphill, downhill, a few minutes or miles after starting out, the same stretch of road? How often has it failed a few miles down the road after filling the tank, for instance? Here's one more specific. Has she always shut down when accelerating? Possibly indicating fuel starvation.

@gwri8 When the engine shut down, was there ANY symptom of rough running or dropping of revs just before the engine died or was it more like someone just turned off the ignition? I'm talking about the last second before it died.

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1 hour ago, Mark Maras said:

 

@gwri8 When the engine shut down, was there ANY symptom of rough running or dropping of revs just before the engine died or was it more like someone just turned off the ignition? I'm talking about the last second before it died.

When we started out the car was just about on empty.  Jai did not fill the tank, she just put in a couple of gallons.  It started up just fine and very shortly after, like 500 ft., it just shut down suddenly like you mentioned, like turning it off.   No rough running. We waited about 5-10 mins and it fired back up.  

These are the very same symptoms that happened before. I'm seriously thinking that there might be water in her tank again and it should probably be drained like ZH mentioned.  Until that happens,  I've read that putting in a bottle of 100% isopropyl alcohol should help displace the water. You can go to the dollar store or where ever and get is for less than a dollar.

Jai, don't worry about the Dist cap.  I don't think it will make a difference just yet.  The clutch is in more need.

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Reporting in with the news of today,  about Redbird and overcoming her problems.  

I put the bottle of alcohol into the gas tank, but due to rain and Dr appointments, I haven't driven her to mix it up.  I took the distributor cap out see if it was the right size and put it on.  Alas, I was unable to unhook the clips.  To do later when I have tamed the clips.

Today I went to Dalton, and saw Pete the mechanic.  He is very willing to work with me, accepting payments for the new clutch to be installed.  He would rather work with broke people because they always stick to an agreement and he does not have to run them down for the money.  What we agreed on was for me to get the parts, and then we will set a date for the work.  He expects to be able to do it in a single day.  His estimate of the labor was $250.  Oh gee wow, that thrilled me.  Good deal!  Now I have to scrape up the cash.

I pose this question to all of you, would you please recommend a good clutch kit for me?  Surely you know I'm totally un educated on this project.  Ha!    Which would be the best clutch to buy for the buck?  For sure you need to know I am not looking for one that is one of the souped up ones, that are put into race cars, that would be overkill and way overpriced for me.  I just need something that is reliable, well known for its service, and a great value.  

Thank you all for showing me the way to go.  I really am in debited to each of you.  

Have a great evening, I know I will now that some of the stress is off me.   :P

Thanks again...

Jai

 

Edited by Redwing

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