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26th-Z

Z 432 At Rm Auction Amelia Island

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     HS30-H,

    The mistake you and many guys like you make is that you WANT to believe the hype, you want to believe in the uniqueness, the mystique and that it will make you special in someway.

    The lot of you throw yourselves into mental gymnastics in order to convince you and everyone else

    of this mystique you want to believe in.

     

    Newsflash: the 432 is nothing more than one of several variants of a mass produced econobox sports car.

    Sorry to break your bubble but I'm sure you won't have any problem puffing yourself back up.

    Live in your fantasy if it makes you happy but don't try and convince the rest of us that these cars are anything other then a Z with different badging. The Datsun community is far too practical a bunch to buy into that pretentiousness.

     

    Now, if some sucker wants to pay 10x too much for a car so he can buy into the lie as well, I guess that's his business and God love him for it.

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    Well said, grannyknot;  professional athletes are the same way- overpaid for doing what you or I could do..

     

    IMO, the only thing that can actually set a car off (by itself) is it's individual history, such as with the 250 "GTO" Ferrari.  Some were 'just cars' but some went on to win the LeMans 24 hours once or more.

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    Finally got a chance to download all the pictures from Amelia Island.  Neither Jim nor I have any idea who ended up buying this car.  The room was packed and you do not see who is bidding since they are all sitting down among the crowd when they bid.

     

    Here are some additional pictures

    post-14066-0-23591900-1426657010_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-96154700-1426657058_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-98392700-1426657101_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-45880100-1426657130_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-42075000-1426657160_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-81536900-1426657195_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-86835000-1426657254_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-68604100-1426657296_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-84602900-1426657331_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-43020600-1426657367_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-65029300-1426657534_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-16970600-1426657566_thumb.j

    post-14066-0-55090800-1426657614_thumb.j

    Edited by mgmoreau

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    Newsflash: the 432 is nothing more than one of several variants of a mass produced econobox sports car.

    Sorry to break your bubble but I'm sure you won't have any problem puffing yourself back up.

    Live in your fantasy if it makes you happy but don't try and convince the rest of us that these cars are anything other then a Z with different badging. The Datsun community is far too practical a bunch to buy into that pretentiousness.

    This hasn't been my experience as to how the classic car market works. Variants affect desireability and price, and range topping models can trade for huge premiums. it's the reason why one 1970 Barracuda will sell for $35,000, and another will bring $4,000,000, thanks almost exclusively to what numbers are on the VIN. Its also the same reason why your early 1970 model brings a premium in the marketplace over a 72, and a 69 in similar condition will be worth more than both. All things being equal, and putting sentiment aside, would you trade your car straight up for a 73? For a 69? For one of the first 20 cars? Just based on what I've seen over the years, the market would value each of these trades differently, even though in this example, they are all nearly identical and special 240Zs.

    I'd assert that the Z432 is not a 240Z - I'm not placing judgement here on whether it's ultimately a better or worse model (we are each entitled to our own opinions, and it's been my experience that you can rarely sway any enthusiast on their opinions on ANY make and model, so I don't even try). I'm just saying they are not the same car, and I've experienced that they are traditionally not valued the same in the marketplace, which until very recently, was almost exclusively in Japan.

    On the face of things, valuing any make and model of old car at more than "parts value" is a silly endeavor, yet there's a ton of people, including myself, who do it all the time.

    Edited by xs10shl
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    Thanks for all the comments, interesting comments, and thoughts about this car.  I wish to extend the FOX News award to Marc and Jimbo for reporting from the event and not knowing who bought the car.  :o   I was surprised to see it sell so high and I tend to think it was oversold.  What were those blue bullet holes?

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    Anyone remember the character Winchester?

     

    Get back in your radio shack, Radar.

    • Like 2

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     HS30-H,

    The mistake you and many guys like you make is that you WANT to believe the hype, you want to believe in the uniqueness, the mystique and that it will make you special in someway.

    The lot of you throw yourselves into mental gymnastics in order to convince you and everyone else

    of this mystique you want to believe in.

     

     

    As before, you're making this more about me than the car itself. Things would still be the way they are even if I didn't exist. What's this nonsense about making me special? It's laughable. The world doesn't work like that. You - and your pal Blue - are concentrating on playing the man rather than the ball.

     

    Just like the diamond/Matisse/Patek Phillipe analogy, it's how human society works and unless you go to live in a mud hut and opt out of society you will have to buy into the economics of it to some extent. The products that you use every day - even the food you eat - is subject to market forces and the 'hype' that you point at. If you bought into the idea of the 'cheap, affordable and uncomplicated sports car' (and I presume you did, since you are here...) then you've bought into exactly the same system that causes somebody to pay the price that's just been paid for the Amelia 432. It's just a matter of degree.

     

    So yes, I'll take that 'mystique' thank you very much. It's the same mystique that causes a Porsche 911R to change hands for more than a 911L, and the Patek change hands for more than the G-Shock.

     

     

    Sorry to break your bubble but I'm sure you won't have any problem puffing yourself back up.

    Live in your fantasy if it makes you happy but don't try and convince the rest of us that these cars are anything other then a Z with different badging. The Datsun community is far too practical a bunch to buy into that pretentiousness.

     

     

    You might want to sit down before I tell you this, but here's another newsflash: The PS30 Fairlady Z 432 IS "a Z with different badging."

    Go back to late 1969 and have another look. Nissan designed, engineered, built and sold a family of models at launch. They were all Zs. 

     

    What you call "The Datsun community" is - if recent experience is anything to go on - still living under a rock. Most of them haven't got the faintest clue about the model we are discussing, and I reckon 99.99% of first generation Z owners don't even realise that many parts and details on their cars are the way the are because other models in other markets were also on the drawing board and factory floor at the same time. So I counter your inverted snobbery of "pretentiousness" by pointing at that ignorance.   

     

     

    Now, if some sucker wants to pay 10x too much for a car so he can buy into the lie as well, I guess that's his business and God love him for it.

     

     

    By calling the buyer a "sucker" you're making a judgement that I believe you don't have enough information to make. That 250-odd thousand may be chump change to him, or not. He might drink bottles of wine that cost as much, or he may not. He may wear a Patek Phillipe, he may wear a G-Shock. You never know - he might be the kind of guy who owns and wears both and knows the 'value' of both in all senses.

     

    It seems to me that you're heading down the road that leads to Philistinism, and in that case I'll wave you on your way and wish you good luck. 

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    I was surprised to see it sell so high and I tend to think it was oversold.  What were those blue bullet holes?

     

    Maybe so, but that's the auction environment for you. I could counter by putting forward the possibility that the previous - long term, Japanese - owner undersold it. In any case, asking prices and selling prices of 432s (and 432-Rs...) have been rising steadily for years and high profile cases like this one will reinforce that.

     

    The 'blue bullet holes' were evidence of (I believe) the previously-fitted aftermarket ignition system. It was an Ultra MDI system, if I remember correctly from when I saw the car in Japan. As presented, the car was probably not that different to how it was in the hands of the previous owner in Japan: A regularly used and 'honest' classic, with a number of "incorrect" details that would theoretically mark it down in a concours competition but - like all my cars and like many of ours I'm sure - didn't bother the previous long-term owner too much.

     

    It's perhaps surprising (or maybe not...) that the seller didn't put a few things more 'right' (I'm thinking the top radiator hose, the plug leads and stuff like that) before the auction, but at least it gives the new owner a chance to put some work into it if he wants.   

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    I agree with most of what you are saying.

    I wouldn't trade my Z for another one as I've put so much work into it and it's just sorting itself out now.

    But if someone offered me 1/4 million calms for it... well then, I guess I'd have to do him a favor and let him have it. ;) Then I would buy another rust bucket Z and start over.

     

    I guess it's not really the amount of money that bothers me so much as this deliberate group hypnosis that happens, guys giving significance  and reverence to a product.

    I think Nissan has always turned out a good product, but that's all is, IMHO products should not be treated as if they are deities.

     

    This hasn't been my experience as to how the classic car market works. Variants affect desireability and price, and range topping models can trade for huge premiums. it's the reason why one 1970 Barracuda will sell for $35,000, and another will bring $4,000,000, thanks almost exclusively to what numbers are on the VIN. Its also the same reason why your early 1970 model brings a premium in the marketplace over a 72, and a 69 in similar condition will be worth more than both. All things being equal, and putting sentiment aside, would you trade your car straight up for a 73? For a 69? For one of the first 20 cars? Just based on what I've seen over the years, the market would value each of these trades differently, even though in this example, they are all nearly identical and special 240Zs.

    I'd assert that the Z432 is not a 240Z - I'm not placing judgement here on whether it's ultimately a better or worse model (we are each entitled to our own opinions, and it's been my experience that you can rarely sway any enthusiast on their opinions on ANY make and model, so I don't even try). I'm just saying they are not the same car, and I've experienced that they are traditionally not valued the same in the marketplace, which until very recently, was almost exclusively in Japan.

    On the face of things, valuing any make and model of old car at more than "parts value" is a silly endeavor, yet there's a ton of people, including myself, who do it all the time.

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    Enjoy your Koolaid Charles Emerson Winchester III, I leave you it to you.

    May you find it as refreshing as I find it distasteful.

     

    As before, you're making this more about me than the car itself. Things would still be the way they are even if I didn't exist. What's this nonsense about making me special? It's laughable. The world doesn't work like that. You - and your pal Blue - are concentrating on playing the man rather than the ball.

     

    Just like the diamond/Matisse/Patek Phillipe analogy, it's how human society works and unless you go to live in a mud hut and opt out of society you will have to buy into the economics of it to some extent. The products that you use every day - even the food you eat - is subject to market forces and the 'hype' that you point at. If you bought into the idea of the 'cheap, affordable and uncomplicated sports car' (and I presume you did, since you are here...) then you've bought into exactly the same system that causes somebody to pay the price that's just been paid for the Amelia 432. It's just a matter of degree.

     

    So yes, I'll take that 'mystique' thank you very much. It's the same mystique that causes a Porsche 911R to change hands for more than a 911L, and the Patek change hands for more than the G-Shock.

     

     

     

     

    You might want to sit down before I tell you this, but here's another newsflash: The PS30 Fairlady Z 432 IS "a Z with different badging."

    Go back to late 1969 and have another look. Nissan designed, engineered, built and sold a family of models at launch. They were all Zs. 

     

    What you call "The Datsun community" is - if recent experience is anything to go on - still living under a rock. Most of them haven't got the faintest clue about the model we are discussing, and I reckon 99.99% of first generation Z owners don't even realise that many parts and details on their cars are the way the are because other models in other markets were also on the drawing board and factory floor at the same time. So I counter your inverted snobbery of "pretentiousness" by pointing at that ignorance.   

     

     

     

     

    By calling the buyer a "sucker" you're making a judgement that I believe you don't have enough information to make. That 250-odd thousand may be chump change to him, or not. He might drink bottles of wine that cost as much, or he may not. He may wear a Patek Phillipe, he may wear a G-Shock. You never know - he might be the kind of guy who owns and wears both and knows the 'value' of both in all senses.

     

    It seems to me that you're heading down the road that leads to Philistinism, and in that case I'll wave you on your way and wish you good luck. 

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    Enjoy your Koolaid Charles Emerson Winchester III, I leave you it to you.

    May you find it as refreshing as I find it distasteful.

     

    Like I said, you're playing the man not the ball.

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