Interior Ergonomics

[Cuong Nguyen]

Hi All,

I have to agree with Alan in terms of Z owners generally being unaware of other models/parts/options/special versions etc offered in other countries.

I have also found it very interesting that many people often comment on how certain parts aren't factory or standard for that particular year car, only to forget that it may be the case in their own country, but that for a Z in another market it may well have had that part fitted when it left the factory. (the Z logo on the steering wheel is a good example of this)

As previously noted by others, it is very annoying that terms such as Series 1 and Series 2 are being used when describing different parts and options on cars as this kind of model designations was never used by Datsun. When have you ever seen a Series 1 badge on a 240Z?

Generally, I would like to see more Z owners be more aware that other models do exist and that just because the HLS version was sold in greater numbers it is by no means a standard setting model. There is plenty more that all of us can ldo to earn about these great cars than simply using zhome and other sources alike as our bible (not that I use zhome as my bible...)

I have loaded two pictures: one of a manual 240Z and the other of a automatic 240Z, both are Japanese "Home Market" interiors. This backs up Alan's claim that indeed different logos on the steering wheel were used in Japan rather than the usual "Datsun" logo for the export cars.

[Zvoiture]

Interesting the pedals levers themselves 'bend' to the right on a RHD Z. HLS-30's pedal levers 'bend' to the right also.

steve

[EScanlon]

Alfadog:

You are correct, in my review of the picture, I confused the tag for a key fob. So I win a bonehead award.

However, as I was looking through my hard drive for the picture, I came across another picture that Alan had sent me last June. There I note that Alan USED to have a Datsun Horn Pad, as well as that orange tag and that OEM style MAP LIGHT in the cigar lighter (That's how I KNOW it was Alan that sent me the picture). So, Alan what gives? It seems as though your horn button has "morphed" into a "Z", or was this part of the fruit of your Japan trip recently. (Just pulling your leg, if it comes off, we'll have to beat you with it.)

But on a completely different note:

One of the recurring theme's I've noted is that people are bothered / upset / peeved---whatever you want to call it, regarding so many references to the Z being an American Car, or that it was designed for the American Market, or that web-site's refer to American only features as global.

Let's pause here, and consider something which is critical to perceptions on the internet.

20 years ago, the "World Wide Web" did NOT exist.

Heck, 20 years ago you could have bought stock in a tiny little company that had just BARELY started, and be a multi-millionaire today....Microsoft. In fact, Windows as an operating system in 1983 wasn't fully conceived, and the first versions of it were so unwieldy that most people continued to use DOS until about 1988 or so. Then with Windows 2.11 or so, did people start accepting computers as something other than another BUSINESS tool. In 1984 or so Tandy began selling the TRS-80, (aka the TRASH 80) while others were using the Commodore, followed by the Commodore 64 and later the 128. All of these early systems used 5-1/4" Floppies for both their boot programs and data (except for the TRS which used 8"). Hard disks weren't made available until the clone PC's were made and even then they were an item for the rich, those famous "geeks", or for business.

When IBM introduced their PC, the public suddenly became interested in a true STAND ALONE computer. Up to then, most computers were TERMINALS of a main-frame. In fact, this is what allowed Microsoft to become the company it is today.

What Gates did is to encapsulate machine language code into a simple to use language that allowed the user to work the PC. This product was called PC-DOS; for Personal Computer - Disk Operating System. The genius of what he did is that he LICENSED the IBM version of the code back to them. He retained ownership of it.

When the famous "CLONE PC's" began appearing; he in turn contacted these companies and gave them access to a slightly different version of the PC-DOS language, MS-DOS, since IBM refused to allow anyone else to license PC-DOS. The licensing agreement with the clone makers basically stipulated a fee for each computer that they manufactured to be paid to Microsoft.

It was the "Clones" which made it affordable for the average buyer to buy a computer. Most of the early programs were simple games. Modems were expensive, communicated at 300 baud, and were notorious for bad initialization strings. Heck, I'll bet that few of you have ever examined an ATA script.

Once Modems became common place, as well as Hard disks, then the first thing to pop up were BULLETIN BOARD SYSTEMS, or BBS. These catered to individual groups. There were game sites, document sites, porn sites, and initially all these things were TEXT BASED. Images didn't begin to proliferate UNTIL the advent of the RGB color monitor, some would say that not until the VGA.

It was these BBS' that began the "online clubs", AND since they were ONLY accessible by telephone calls, their reach was strictly a LOCAL NEIGHBORHOOD audience. Calling long distance to access a BBS was considered "hard-core", calling internationally would have been an obsession.

As a result, many of the "writings" that have been put to electronic storage have had a very limited audience scope. Hence their viewpoint will not have the global reaching scope that the net offers us today. Are they intentionally ethnocentric to the point of excluding other countries? Probably. Again, I'll remind you that MOST people in ANY given country don't do much traveling outside of their own neighborhood. I'll agree upfront to locales such as Monaco, the Netherlands, Switzerland et al, but the vast majority of the world harbors home bodies. They simply aren't interested in what goes on in the other half of the world, because they've never been exposed to it.

Years later other programs became available until finally someone adapted a program to use the text messaging ability in the UUNET. THEN we suddenly have the first uses of the beginnings of the internet. (Thank you Al Gore)

NOW we begin to have people become aware of what's going on accross the ocean. Suddenly, we note that the people in Europe aren't deprived of computers as we all thought. Although there certainly was a time when, just as in the U.S., it was a small percentage of the population that was "into" computers.

All of this occurred in the mid to late 80's.

So, in 20 years we've gone from NO Internet, to the global reaching net that it is today.

During that time, there were a number of years where the internet, could be said to have been a U.S. only arena. It wasn't till about 7-10 years ago that it REALLY became the WORLD WIDE net.

So, without the input from people such as Alan, and Cuong, and Kats and Alfadog, and .......... it becomes impossible to be aware of all the hundreds of differences amongst our cultures, let alone, the differences in the manner in which, for our "selfish" motives, the Z car was distributed by Japan.

So, was it wrong for someone at Zhome to write about an "American Car built in Japan"? Looking back now, probably. At the time it was written? Probably not, as it may very well have been written for, what was perceived to be, an American only audience.

But then again, Datsun didn't help the idea that the car had been built with the U.S. in mind.

In their 1970 240Z sales brochure, the one with the 240Z Roof Pillar emblem on a silver background, blurred as if moving. Open it up, there will be a Red 70 Z, and read the text, I'll snip and quote:

"Inside you relax in deluxe, comfort-contoured bucket seats, lavish 'GT' appointments and full size American space.

Emphasis mine.

No doubt, Datsun printed those brochures for an American Only audience and didn't use the same literature in England, or Australia, or ......... Could it be that other country's literature may display the same ethnocentrism that we accuse the U.S. of having? Let's face it, that's common marketing. What appeals to an Argentinian buyer, is NOT necessarily what would appeal to a British, or an American.

As far as differences between the model, model years, options, accessories etc. That's normal. Heck the 1970 Chevrolet Nova was sold in Chile as the 1974 Chevrolet (no model name).

So, while I agree that the importance of the model's ability to be either RHD or LHD needs to be documented and shared. I don't think it's productive to be centering on "americanism's" which aren't intended to be ethnocentric as much as they were / are part of the history of the internet, BBS's etc. Should they be corrected? Ah, now we're talking revisionism, and that's a different post.....

2¢

[Sean Dezart]

Permit me to digress slightly (and Fred will like this one Alan),

Was it a factory option or home market standard item to have a passenger foot rest ?

If so, are there bolt holes on both LHD and RHD passenger foot-wells ?

If not, did Nissan really expect owners/dealers to drill holes ?

Sean

[Sean Dezart]

Hey Enrique - I love it, whip Alan again (he loves it too!).

So perhaps, all you poor isolated (ignorant?) Left hookers had better get over to an Aussie or UK Z meet and be educated on the 'flick 'o the (left) wrist' style of driving ?

[Zedrally]

Originally posted by EScanlon

Well, Zedrally gets the bonehead of the day award. (All in fun, no offense intended.) From his post in reply to my query as to the ignition switch and the combination switch on a RHD vehicle:

snip & copy/paste

You are correct, in my review of the picture, I confused the tag for a key fob. So I win a bonehead award.

This is what happens when you don't apply the KISS principal.[i had a feeling a simple reply would provoke a huge response from within the ether]!

These subtle differences really are of no consequence in the big scheme of things, however, they do tend to make each zed interestingly different.

Any takers for the choke position?

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by EScanlon

.snip:...... I came across another picture that Alan had sent me last June. There I note that Alan USED to have a Datsun Horn Pad, as well as that orange tag and that OEM style MAP LIGHT in the cigar lighter (That's how I KNOW it was Alan that sent me the picture). So, Alan what gives? It seems as though your horn button has "morphed" into a "Z", or was this part of the fruit of your Japan trip recently. (Just pulling your leg, if it comes off, we'll have to beat you with it.)

Thanks for the Internet history lesson Enrique. I do appreciate that the country where a website is based is going to influence its bias, but we ARE talking about the history of a Japanese car. I can't believe that anybody would be so taken in by its local distributor's advertising copy and marketing hype that they truly believed stuff like the "full size American space" quote. But then again, it was the end of the Sixties and perhaps we were all quite a lot more gullible then.

I wonder if American buyers of British "Sports" cars of the same period had the same kind of advertising fired at them? One of the reasons that these British makes started to die out was that customers came to realise that they were having a re-heated version of last-week's leftovers put in front of them.

Whatever, yesterday's advertising copy should not be allowed to become today's gospel.

Ah yes, about my Horn Pad........

Chief Inspector Scanlon certainly spotted that my horn buttons are in rotation ( nothing gets past you does it?! ). I use either a "Datsun" logoed horn button, or the Japanese-market "Z" logo button depending on whom I'm trying to impress. The "Datsun Compe." Sports Option-list steering wheel was ( somewhat ironically in view of the above discussions ) branded with the "Datsun" logo in Japan. Many Japanese Z enthusiasts find the "Datsun" logo something of a rarity / novelty. There are others who prefer not to have the "Datsun" brand on the car. I swing both ways ( but don't tell anyone - OK? )........

This does not seem to apply in the USA, but over here in the land of cloth capped, tweed-jacketed and pipe-smoking "Sports" car enthusiasts, the "Datsun" brand is something of a joke. This makes it rather amusing to turn up in the paddock of a VSCC or HSCC race meeting in something that most of these dinosaurs do not recognise. Its nice to see their expressions change when they see the word "Datsun" on the car. Most of them would recognise the shape of a "normal" bodied S30-series Z, but 99% of them have no idea what a Fairlady 240ZG is. Of course the next question is "why" I riveted on those tacky flares and the 250GTO bodykit. Almost nobody believes it left the factory like that.

This is why I am trying to put together a Fairlady Z432-R replica. I can't afford to buy a real 432 and then turn it into an "R" replica, but its possible to make a pretty good job from an early Japanese bodyshell and put some REAL parts on it. I REALLY want other people to hear, smell and see an early Z with an S20 engine in it. I'd love for everybody on this site to experience it too, and when its finished I am giving an open invitation for anybody who is interested to come and have a drive. Although they are not ultimately all that powerful, its the balance of the 160-odd BHP in a light shell driving through a close-ratio 5-speed to an LSD-equipped 4.44 geared diff and on skinny tyres, that is so good. Add that extra ingredient of a little mystery and rarity, and you have what amounts to the perfect Z Martini...........

Cheers!

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Zedrally - I think the Choke ( and Hand Throttle ) positioning on the RHD cars is just fine. Don't you? All things considered, their position is a default if the Handbrake lever is on the right of the tunnel.

Sean, in answer to your query about the Passenger Foot Rest ( entertainingly called the "Navigator's Foot Rest" in the Japanese sales catalogues ) - this was an Option part in Japan. It could be specified on any of the early Japanese-market cars for a small extra cost. Most of the Japanese-market bodyshells that I have seen had the strengthened mounting bosses on the passenger footwell ( they were spotwelded on and sealed with rubber bungs if not used ). This made the footrest a bolt-on accessory. To my knowledge, no export model cars had these bosses spotwelded to the floor from the Factory ( but I have seen a couple of export-model cars that seem to have had them added later ). Japanese-market cars also had the extra front seat-rail mount brackets ( allowing the seats to have two different bolt-down positions for the runners ). Notice that the REAR brackets always have two sets of holes - more Z hermaphrodity. Did anybody ever wonder about them?

Many people who have had a ride in the passenger seat of my ZG comment that the footrest is a handy thing to be able to use. You can hook your toes underneath it or put them on top to brace yourself when you are convinced that the driver is going to have another off track excursion. Not all of these people were shorties either. One genius even noted that it allowed him to keep his feet away from the exhaust heat on that side of the tunnel. Any of you left hooker owners ever feel slightly overwarm in the throttle-foot department?

Time for a Gipsy's kiss and a cup of Rosy Lee I think,

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Just in case anyone's not seen what the Japanese-market Footrest looks like:

[Zedrally]

Originally posted by HS30-H

Zedrally - I think the Choke ( and Hand Throttle ) positioning on the RHD cars is just fine. Don't you? All things considered, their position is a default if the Handbrake lever is on the right of the tunnel.

Alan T.

I guess what I was really trying to say is. was the choke position a factor in not changing the handbrake.

Apart from mirror imaging the console the choke [on later model cars] would need to have been changed.

In my way of thinking if it wasn't then you would have the choke hard against the handbrake, certainly not ergonomic.

Could this be thrue reason for the setup on the zed?

[Zvoiture]

Well..I'm not "ugly American"-sized. I'm 5'4 and the footrest in my HLS-30 is COMPLETELY UNOBTAINABLE to my left foot. Only by pointing my toes and stretching can I 'rest' on it. Here's a funny thing, though: on my Z31, there is a foot rest to the left of the clutch that I can comfortably rest my foot on.

steve

[EScanlon]

Alan wrote:

I can't believe that anybody would be so taken in by its local distributor's advertising copy and marketing hype that they truly believed stuff like the "full size American space" quote.

Two things, one, the ad brochure I quoted from is a Datsun publication with a Form number and all. It isn't a local dealer's ad copy as I bought this from another car collector, and since then I've seen other Z enthusiasts with the SAME brochure. So, it WAS something that Datsun was using, appealing to the ethnocentric feelings which any country finds appealing.

Two, you may not believe that someone would be taken or fooled by some of the advertising or marketing hype. Alan, the old expression, "If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you." arises just from the fact that people DO tend to believe the most outlandish things.

Do you recall the story of the Arizona millionaire who bought the "London Bridge"? He did in fact, buy the LONDON bridge. But in his mind he was convinced he had purchased the TOWER bridge. He bought the bridge, sight unseen, had it disassembled, shipped and reassembled someplace in Arizona if I recall right. Once it was finished, he was appaled to discover that the LONDON bridge he had bought, wasn't the London Bridge in all those postcards from London. This is a true story, and the bridge is open to the public.

Then there were countless number of individuals both in the U.S. and abroad that bought "Watefront property" in Florida. Only to discover that their property was in the Everglades.

I could cite other examples, but it gets away from the point I want to make.

The Z car was built at a time when some Japanese companies were having difficult times. Although the car may have been built with the Japanese market as it's ORIGINAL sales venue, there are many items that point to the fact that Nissan intended to promote it's products outside of Japan. That in considering the export market, the U.S. market was seen as a prime market is a natural consequence of the fact that American's have shown a predilection for being enamoured of their cars. There has been a lot written about that. The famous "penis-envy" articles, the Status Symbol of the import / sports car, the "Muscle Car" tales, all point to the fact that American's do in fact...LOVE their cars.

That Mr. K saw the U.S. market as a rainstorm of soup and all he needed was a bucket is a tribute to his intelligence. Let's face it, American's, as compared to many other sectors of the world, have more DISPOSABLE income per capita than many other countries.

Now hang on. Before you pull out your flame thrower and start blasting, I'm not making a qualitative, nor quantitative assessment of the rest of the world. I'm stating simple economic data. While Germany, France, England, and Japan may have more millionaires, as countries, the vast numbers of their populations do NOT have the EXCESS income that an average American has. And this was VERY noticeable in the Late 60's and early 70's.

For that reason, selling in the U.S. would have and DID bias a lot of the production of the Z towards the LHD market. This doesn't mean that that was it's PRIMARY market, just it's largest. It doesn't say that the RHD vehicles either abroad or in Japan are inconsequential, it says that the number of vehicles created are in fact, LHD Z's.

Now, looking at the production figures cited at www.zhome.com, (http://zhome.com/History/Zproduction.html) and presuming that their quote saying that they are from a Nissan publication is true, we can say the following things:

The first 500 Z cars EXPORTED went to the U.S.

This doesn't say that the first 500 manufactured went to the U.S. althouth the VIN numbers seem to point that way. VIN enumeration has been discussed, and Alan is much more knowledgeable about this than I am, but it appears that the first 500 VIN's did go to the U.S.. Alan please correct me if I'm wrong.

92.6% of the TOTAL export figures through 1977 went to the U.S.

I excluded 1978 since it doesn't show figures for the other countries.

By the end of 1971 the U.S. alone had imported over 50,000 vehicles. The other countries including Canada totaled a little over 6,000.

Sadly, I'm not aware where we could find Japan home market figures so that we can readily compare TOTAL PRODUCTION figures and percentages.

Again, the RHD car is an important part of the Z history. But, like Left handed people in the human population, it is in the minority.

So, having stirred this up a bit again, I'll await for everyone's replies.