How many Series One 240Zs are left??

[Bcalvosa]

Additional background...

R L Polk & Co. is the source automakers use when they make claims like "60% of all Porsches ever made are still on the road today". They are also the source automakers use to mail recall notices to registered vehicle owners. Polk outlines the products they offer and their data sources on their web: http://usa.polk.com/. The specific product I used is called NVPP: http://usa.polk.com/Products/1_nvpp.htm. Note that their web does not give free access to their data as it is subscription only (tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars per year depending on what product and what level of data you want). I am in the automotive aftermarket where we use their data to understand how many vehicles are on the road for parts we make or are considering making.

We can look at their data another way to check the scale of my assumptions:

Looking at 1974 Datsuns (the oldest year that Polk breaks out registrations by model), 58% of the registered Datsuns were Z cars. Polk reports that there are 19,973 registered Datsuns that are 1973 and older (meaning my estimate is that 43% of those are 240Z's, the rest being Roadsters, 510's, 610's, 710's, Pickups, etc). If instead we optimistically assume that 58% of all 73 and older Datsuns registered are 240Z's, that would raise my 240Z estimates by 35% and mean that 8% of all 240Z's ever imported into the USA are still registered. Looking back at my earlier attachment:

<img src="http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/data/3192/medium/Z_Car_Registrations.jpg" />

note that the oldest Z's with 8% or more of the imported vehicles still on the road are the 77-78 280Z 2 seaters (vehicles that are significantly newer, more rust resistant, and more accident tolerant (impact absorbing bumpers, reinforced unibody, etc.)). That would seem overly optimistic, but it could serve us an upper threshold.

Feel free to use this data as a foundation, refine the 240Z assumptions, estimate the percentage of stored, being restored, & rebuildable wrecks, etc. to arrive at figures you are comfortable with.

Enjoy,

Edited December 12, 2009 by Bcalvosa

[Unkle]

Plus add a couple handfulls left in Canada as well . Anybody have Canadian numbers ?

[Bcalvosa]

Polk shows 2,056 Datsuns 1973 and older are registered in Canada. If the same 43% were 240Z's, that would be 884 additional 69-73 240Z's.

[geezer]

Here is what clouds the question for me. What exactly is the criteria used to classify a car as being "registered" by Polk. "On the road" and "registered" have different meanings here in Ontario and maybe in several states of the US also. Although my Z is registered in the province of Ontario in my name, it is registered as "unplated" because it is a project not yet deemed fit to drive on the road. Does Polk count these "registered" but "unplated" cars?

Edited December 12, 2009 by geezer

[NissanMaster]

Thanks Mr.Geezer!

[MBeards]

I have a 1/70 240Z Vin #HLS30-01403 so you can add mine to the list. It's a work in progress... I'm a new member to Zclub I have owned my Z for 2 years and its a Sunday driver.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Ron:

Here in the State we have Automobile Titles that show ownership. You can Own a car without paying for a license plate needed to drive it on public roads. So a State Automobile Title shows ownership only.

Then on top of that we have Registered License Plates {to show that you have paid the license tax each year}.

So here you would would search the Department of Motor Vehicles for VIN numbers associated with the Title, then look to see how many are currently "Registered" as having current license plates for road use.

However - being 50 individual but United States - State Laws are not completely uniform. In some States, they quite tracking Titles after a car is 25 years old - for them then the Registration of the license plates shows ownership as well. The transfer the license plates from person to person as ownership changes {meaning that the plates stay on the car}. In other States the license plates belong to the individual, and as that individual trades cars, the license plates are moved from car to car.

In either case - tracking Registered License Plates would most likely provide the most useful data. Even if the license plate isn't current {meaning that the current year's fee's have not been paid} the older record would still be in the system.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[geezer]

Thanks Carl. I suppose RL Polk & Co. has been doing this long enough and knows how to access the available data and present it in a form that suits their clients needs, but looking through the eyes of an enthusiast, it appears "hit & miss" at best, with a margin of error that I believe could be well into the double digits. It has been mentioned before that the collectability factor of these cars, will have a direct bearing on how many of them have been stored away. Considered too valuable to crush, maybe for the time being, considered too expensive to restore; countless numbers could be under the radar of RL Polk & Co.

That's OK by me. It adds a little more mystery and interest to the hobby. We all love it when one of them suddenly returns from the unknown.

NissanMaster: Looks like you were thrown a curve?

[jmortensen]

Mine is registered. It's a stripped shell on a rotisserie, but it is registered...

[Kathy & Rick]

Hi, everybody, lots of good inputs above and thanks for those. You are

discussing a long-time "sub-hobby" of mine, so maybe I can help.

The latest 1/71 (Series 1) I've seen is #20425, and the earliest 2/71

(Series 2) I've seen is #22021. So we could say with good basis that

there were about 22000 Series 1's produced. Someone, I think John

(ZCar70) said 21000, that is a fair statement too, I wouldn't quarrel.

Now in the ZHome site, Carl Beck accounts for 152 of the 534 1969's, or

just under 30%. We don't know that that is ALL of those remaining, but

that is all we do know of after several years of researching. So if we

extrapolate the 30% to the 21000 or 22000 Series 1's, I would say that

6300 to 6600 remaining Series 1 is about right. Needless to say, very

few of those are in the Northeastern quadrant of the country which we call "the rust belt." I would also include Ron's (Geezer's) Ontario,

in fact all of Canada in that term. Sounds a little higher than most

of you are coming up with, but I hope you followed how I figured.

Another person asked about the earliest 240-Z w/AT. VIN#09210 is the

earliest I've ever seen personally, but Carl had told me about #07969

built early 8/70, and "He's Da Man."

Please include our Z's in your accounting as listed below.

Merry Christmas and All Z Best,.........................Kathy & Rick

Edited December 24, 2009 by Kathy & Rick

[Mat M]

Please add mine... She's a daily unless it's raining, or I need my truck for work.

[HS30-H]

R L Polk & Co. is the source automakers use when they make claims like "60% of all Porsches ever made are still on the road today".

Do you happen to know if R L Polk & Co. claim to cover the whole world?

They would need to if they were going to make claims about "...all Porsches ever made....", for example.

Ｉ bet they don't know about my cars!